Action-less combat

[LostSoul]

Has anybody ever created a combat system for D&D that doesn't use the (in my opinion) complicated "action" system? I find it a little bothersome keeping track of partial actions, full actions, 5' steps, blah di de blah.

What I'm looking for is something that allows PCs to do whatever they want, as many times as they want. With appropriate penalties.

At first thought, something like: you get 1 free move + 1 free action. Anything else gives you a -5 to all rolls for the round.

example 1: Lahad the Gypsy, with an attack of +10/+10/+5 with Rapid Shot, decides to chuck his daggers at the closing horde of undead. He declares that he's going to throw 4 daggers (1 more than his allowed attacks) and "leap back" 30 feet (his free move). He rolls +5/+5/+0/-5 for his attacks.

Of course, a natural 20 doesn't mean a guaranteed hit. Maybe a natural 20 means you roll another d20 and add that to your first roll, I don't know.

What do you guys think? Are there any existing systems that could handle this out there, or should I piss around with this some more?

 

[LostSoul]

No ideas, eh? I guess I'll put something together on my own.

 

[Crothian]

Personally, I don't find the action system that bad at all. We've never had a problem with it.

 

[Limper]

LostSoul unless I miss my guess the system you long for is 2e and maybe 1e. Simple no complex action sequence..... just up to the DM and players to House Rule or otherwise make up whatever was needed.

 

[LostSoul]

LostSoul unless I miss my guess the system you long for is 2e and maybe 1e. Simple no complex action sequence..... just up to the DM and players to House Rule or otherwise make up whatever was needed.

1 & 2e had thier problems as well. You only got your one (or, if a Fighter, a little more) attack per round. I'm looking for something that allows you to do a ton of stuff (like climbing up a wall while fighting the dire badger on your back and trying to slip out of the rope that's got your feet tied together all the meanwhile trying to intimidate the nearby guards but impressing the local ladies), but each extra thing you do gives you a penalty.

It's not that I dislike the action system or anything, it's just more complex than I'd like it to be. I feel like this complexity takes away from imaginative and heroic actions. (A new player and I were messing around with D&D and she wanted to: jump back over a pit, get out her grappling hook, and trip the two kobolds who were threatening her. I didn't want to tell her she could only attack one.)

It's obvious that d20 doesn't have to use the D&D action system for combat. I was wondering if anyone came up with other, less tactical systems.

 

[Limper]

A starting point might be, to rate the types of actions one could take. I propose this for not all actions are equal

Lets say to normal mve no balace check is 1
With balace check DC< 10 = 2
w/Balance check DC> 10 = 3
Double move = double cost

Attack is 10

and so forth... each 5 points of actions is a - 2

Thinking about it I dont think there is a simple way to do it..... if this doesn't help I'd start a new campaign and start with the very simple version you mentioned in the original post advance the levels in this game very quick.... make it HIGH action and a functional system will appear (just remember to take notes) IF theres a functional system to be had.

 

[WSmith]

Lost Soul. I wrote this in another thread, called Streamlining action types.

I am toying with a 3 second round for my basic 3e game. You get to do one thing without a penalty. You can try a second (or even third thing depending on the cicumstances), but incur cumulative penalties for such things that require a roll. (-4, -8, -12 etc.)

For example: Normally it would take one players action to reload a crossbow. He could wait until his next turn to fire, or fire right then with a -4 penalty to hit. the he is done.

Movement is scaled to 20, 15, and 10, etc. If you do something while moving you take the penalty.

For example: While moving, the fighter wants to fire his bow, he can with a -4 penalty to hit. ]

Using a movement skill which requies a roll, like balance or climb, and the character wants to say, fire a hand crossbow while precariously hanging to the rugged side of the bluff, and abosutely must fire, we can choose which action he want to concetrate more on, the moving or the attacking. The other is the one that gets the penalty. (Note: with the slower movement rates, and the expedious round, the characters very rarely need to actually attack while moving in this type of situtation. They just stop the climbing for that round and fire the hand crossbow. Then resume climbing the next round. )

There is more to it than just that, and some other bugs to be worked out. But I have tried it and it seemed to work very well.

A couple of things I did not point out is that this works at low levels without any adjustments, cause few get *TRUE* multiple attacks. A TWF attack is considerd one attack for the purpose of extra action penalties, unless they are moving or trying to attack a third (or even fourth) time.

Certain feats and BAB will over come the penalties in time.

I have some more to work out but from what I have done, this is a really good system to use. I am using it for my Basic d20 game I am putting together.

 

[WSmith]

(like climbing up a wall while fighting the dire badger on your back and trying to slip out of the rope that's got your feet tied together all the meanwhile trying to intimidate the nearby guards but impressing the local ladies),

Under my system I might break it down like this:

The climbing character's, we will call the Dread Pirate Roberts turn has come up in initiative.

Climbing up the wall: Roberts decides that it is more importantant to concentrate on getting that stinkin' badger off his back than trying to move the extra feet and strugle with it. So no climbing move. This doesn't count for anything this round.

Fighting the dire badger / trying to slip out of the rope tied to the feet: While the character thinks he needs to fight the badger, he also knows that unbounding his feet will give him a greater chance of successfully moving up the wall before the guards can formulate a plan to catch him. he decides to give to badger his attention cause of the distraction it is causing. So he will take the -4 peanlty to the escape artist roll.

Intimadating the guards while impressing the ladies: being occupied with the other dangers, Roberts cant quite use his Intimadate or Diplomacy skills very well either. Granted shouting out something like "help" is always allowed and doesn't need a check. However, in order to leave a lasting impression imbedded in the onlookers mind, he will need to use his personality skills. So, he makes whatever check the DM deems appropriate, with a -8 penalty. Roberts isn't worried though, his Charisma is high enough to take a massive bite out of this penalty.

Hope that helps.

 

[WSmith]

One thing to add. I tried this out a few times today. If the character is performing a second or third action that doesn't requrire a check, you can always roll for a concentration check to do the task, with the proper penalty.

For example: While walking across the temple floor (first action with no check needed), the rogue wants to load his crossbow, (the second action that does not require a check). Since the loading is the 2nd action the character is taking, but doesn't require a roll, the DM can require that the loading would call for a Concentration check, (vs. a preset number) with the -4 penalty. Failure means he was not able to concetrate enough to perform the action, and his turn is over. On his next turn he can stop and load his Xbow or keep moving without trying to load it, or try the same test as above, again.

 

[Jack Haggerty]

You could always use something similar to Fallout's Action Points...

Have Action Points equal to something like 10 + Dex mod, or whatever.

Walking... 5' = 1AP, no penalty.
Hustling... 10' = 1AP, -4 penatly to all rolls for one round.
Running... 20' = 1AP, only in a straight line, -8 penalty to all rolls for one round.

Attack... 1 attack = 3-5AP, depending on weapon size and weight.

Use an item or skill... 4+AP, depending on item or skill.

Or something like that.