Action points burning healing surges.

[Kzach]

One of the things that bugs me about 4e is milestones. I feel they're an incredibly clunky mechanic in an otherwise generally elegant system.

So my proposal is to get rid of them entirely. Every character has one action point per combat to use whenever they please, however they please, but that expires by the end of the combat.

Daily power limits by level for items are still in effect, but instead of requiring a milestone, they burn an action point, every time. So if you have three items with three daily powers, you can only use one daily power per combat and you have to use an action point to use the daily power.

But giving an action point every combat makes the PC's rather powerful. As a counter-balance to this, my suggestion is to have action points burn healing surges. This makes the action point not just a freebie power up, but rather a precious resource that requires careful consideration before being used.

At first blush one may think it gives certain classes like paladins (who have a lot of healing surges) an advantage, but I feel this is balanced by the fact that those classes generally NEED those healing surges and use them up pretty quick anyway.

The biggest problem i see with this is that it does tend to limit the adventuring day. But then I've generally found that players tend to rest when they've burned their dailies, whether they've got healing surges galore or not.

 

[Starfox]

This would make using daily items very expensive; it is already a quite limited resource.

I would suggest starting with 3 Hero Points and handing out 2 HP each encounter;

2 AP is an Action Point
1 AP is a daily item use

This also make the Adroit Explorer's ability to start the day with 2 AP (which probably works out to 5 Hp) worthwhile.

 

[Kzach]

Yah... no offence, but that's the exact sort of situation I'm trying to avoid with this rule in the first place, ie. accounting.

 

[MrBeens]

One of the things that bugs me about 4e is milestones. I feel they're an incredibly clunky mechanic in an otherwise generally elegant system.

So my proposal is to get rid of them entirely. Every character has one action point per combat to use whenever they please, however they please, but that expires by the end of the combat.

Daily power limits by level for items are still in effect, but instead of requiring a milestone, they burn an action point, every time. So if you have three items with three daily powers, you can only use one daily power per combat and you have to use an action point to use the daily power.

But giving an action point every combat makes the PC's rather powerful. As a counter-balance to this, my suggestion is to have action points burn healing surges. This makes the action point not just a freebie power up, but rather a precious resource that requires careful consideration before being used.

At first blush one may think it gives certain classes like paladins (who have a lot of healing surges) an advantage, but I feel this is balanced by the fact that those classes generally NEED those healing surges and use them up pretty quick anyway.

The biggest problem i see with this is that it does tend to limit the adventuring day. But then I've generally found that players tend to rest when they've burned their dailies, whether they've got healing surges galore or not.

So under your system:
In each combat you can either use an action point or a magic item daily
You can't use an action point if you are out of healing surges.
You will be reticent to use an action point if you are low on healing surges in case you need to be healed.

Under the base system:
You can use an action point and a magic item power in the same combat
You can use multiple magic item powers in the same combat (if you have the uses)
Action points can be used with out worrying about other consequences
Action points can be used as long as you have them

Doesn't seem like a balanced pay off to me.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Why not have every encounter grant either one extra daily item use or one extra action point, players choice? On average, that's the same number as if you'd use milestones.

Burning up healing surges is not a good idea in my opinion. Action Points and Daily Item Powers gained by milestone exist to make continue fighting worthwile - you might have less daily powers over time, but you got some action points and daily item powers to help you out instead. If it also costs healing surges, you have to rest earlier because you're out of surges. You reduce the incentives to go on for no benefit overall except accounting milestones.

 

[OakwoodDM]

One of the things that bugs me about 4e is milestones. I feel they're an incredibly clunky mechanic in an otherwise generally elegant system.

So my proposal is to get rid of them entirely. Every character has one action point per combat to use whenever they please, however they please, but that expires by the end of the combat.

Daily power limits by level for items are still in effect, but instead of requiring a milestone, they burn an action point, every time. So if you have three items with three daily powers, you can only use one daily power per combat and you have to use an action point to use the daily power.

But giving an action point every combat makes the PC's rather powerful. As a counter-balance to this, my suggestion is to have action points burn healing surges. This makes the action point not just a freebie power up, but rather a precious resource that requires careful consideration before being used.

At first blush one may think it gives certain classes like paladins (who have a lot of healing surges) an advantage, but I feel this is balanced by the fact that those classes generally NEED those healing surges and use them up pretty quick anyway.

The biggest problem i see with this is that it does tend to limit the adventuring day. But then I've generally found that players tend to rest when they've burned their dailies, whether they've got healing surges galore or not.

Yeah, my players would lynch me if I tried to implement this. Admittedly there's only two of them, but the guy playing the rogue tends to burn through all his healing surges in around 3 encounters with RAW, so forcing him to spend a healing surge to get an additional action OR to use his daily item power is likely to infuriate him.

 

[KarinsDad]

So if you have three items with three daily powers, you can only use one daily power per combat and you have to use an action point to use the daily power.

Been there, tried that.

The players just didn't use Daily item powers. They used the Action point for other things (typically for an extra action, but we allow action points for other stuff as well). We voted the house rule off the island.

As a counter-balance to this, my suggestion is to have action points burn healing surges.

It would be even worse if they had to burn a healing surge.

 

[Stalker0]

I've done the one action point gained per combat and it hasn't been an issue with my group, you might just try that without a counterbalance.

Agreed though that item daily for an action point are actually kind of weak, many item dailies aren't that great.

 

[Starfox]

If you want to go real simple, allow one daily item and one action point every encounter.

Not that this is not a pure bonus; you lose the ability to stack up on item dailies and use them all in one encounter, which can be quite handy in boss fights. Overall, it gives a bit more power to your players, at the benefit of less accounting.

 

[eriktheguy]

Yeah, most of my DMs are reluctant to give out milestones, and the party just wants to rest anyways. I suggest giving out an action point whenever they hit a major plot point. Also, don't take it away if they rest after reaching the plot point.