Actions

Kobold Stew

Last Guy in the Airlock
Supporter
There are a lot of proposed changes to the actions one can take. This isn’t a complete run-down, but it covers some of the big issues (and I'm giving out grades!)

Dash, Attack, and Magic [sic; “cast a spell”] are still actions.

Jump is now an action, not part of movement. The WOTC folk sure must jump a lot in their games. The decision to make it an action is sensible, and leaves space open Battlemaster for monk maneuvers whereby characters may make an attack while taking the jump action etc. We see that sort of thing already with the Thief subclass, where they can use Dex to make a jump action. And Thief actually intersects well with the Athlete feat, which lets you have advantage on jumps (even though the climb speed becomes redundant). So that’s all good, and means there’s no more silliness where jumps are limited by total movement, with characters pausing midair at the end of their turn. I like that they are explicit that Athletics or Acrobatics proficiency will help, but it’s still a Strength roll for most. Jump is still a (primal/arcane) spell, too, everyone will be relieved to hear. Failed jumps always move you 5’, even 5’ vertically, which means any PC can fumble a jump three times higher than me at my best. 3/5 -- still needs work, but a good leap forward.

Help as an action requires proficiency in a skill if you are assisting with a check. That’s a good correction. 5/5

Hide is no longer an opposed roll. This is major – it’s a static DC 15 to be hidden. But your roll total becomes the DC for being spotted. Possibly, someone needs to Search for you, taking an action. Does this eliminate passive perception entirely? You can now only hide with cover or obscurement, which is more demanding, and will require greater precision from both players and DMs. Hidden is now a condition, and explicitly gives advantage on attacks and to initiaive (in an ability poorly-named "surprise" unless they are going to fix that too). There's such a mix ere of good and bad. I want to know clearly that you don;'t need an action to see someone hiding poorly, but I'm prepared to be convinced. 2/5

Influence is a new action, and gives some good, quick mechanics for social interactions. Normally actions are only taken in combat, and I think there’s a disconnect in how this is supposed to work in a turn-based action economy, but it’s a positive step, and I’ll want to try it in play. 3/5 -- I'm hopeful.

Search is an action, but somehow it has nothing to do with the skill investigate. This has to be an oversight, right? In any case, you need to search to detect a concealed creature. They need to clarify how this interacts with Passive perception. If I’m honest, I was hoping they’d do more for passive skills – passive perception to detect hiding characters, passive investigation to see through illusions, but not requiring an action. They still could go that way, but I don’t see evidence for that here, so 1/5

Study is an action, which gives a real nonmagical reason to use Intelligence. Woo hoo. I can imagine circumstances where this becomes part of the turn-based action economy of combat, but most uses will be out of combat. The Keen Mind feat has been weakened, though, as a result. No more perfect recall, now the Study action is a bonus action for you (you can attack and remember something…), and proficiency and/or expertise in a knowledge skill is fine. But it still lacks the fun of requiring the DM to repeat the clue from six sessions ago. (Really, the feat was an engine to help smooth play; losing that will be felt by some, even if the time-till-the-setting-sun stuff was always a waste. 4/5 (it would be lower if I felt anyone ever took Keen Mind).

What are your thoughts with the range of actions being suggested in the playtest?
 

log in or register to remove this ad


Branduil

Adventurer
If Passive Perception is gone, this is a massive buff for Stealth. DC 15 is super-easy to hit for most stealthy characters, especially since most of them will have Expertise now.
 

tetrasodium

Legend
Supporter
If Passive Perception is gone, this is a massive buff for Stealth. DC 15 is super-easy to hit for most stealthy characters, especially since most of them will have Expertise now.
The cover & other requirements scale it back to reasonable while diffusing the BA overload of stealth expertise in a way that can be very difficult to game like the 2014 stealth. Where it was triviall to have undetectable stealth skills
I think the hide action is pretty good
 

Jump is now an action, not part of movement. The WOTC folk sure must jump a lot in their games.

Surely it's the opposite. Jumping is something those martial characters might have to do, better make it an action because all WotC people are just casting Fly which is an action, can't have the martials getting away with a freebie like that.

leaves space open Battlemaster for monk maneuvers whereby characters may make an attack while taking the jump action etc. We see that sort of thing already with the Thief subclass, where they can use Dex to make a jump action... there’s no more silliness where jumps are limited by total movement, with characters pausing midair at the end of their turn.

These are good points. It's just weird that a Ranger/Rogue/commoner could jump to the top of a 10ft building, but then couldn't do anything else, while taking their time to climb it leaves them with plenty of time for other activities.

Hidden is now a condition, and explicitly gives advantage on attacks and to initiaive (in an ability poorly-named "surprise" unless they are going to fix that too).

There likely are no surprise rounds in 1DD, ambushing someone (with Pass Without Trace as the usual method) is just advantage to initiative.
 
Last edited:

Olrox17

Hero
Jump: I don't mind it being an action now, but the jumping distances are out of whack, especially vertical jumps. The fixed PHB jumping distances were perhaps too reliable, but the new ones are insanely dependent on random chance, and a minimum of 5 feet vertical jump is just hilarious.

Help: Perfect fix IMO. This is how I've been running it in my games all along.

Influence: I like what they're trying to do, but they should make more clear that the DCs provided are merely general suggestions. Also, the DCs provided look a bit too low.

Search: They took out investigation, and assigned to the Study action, instead. That's ok. I also like that they added more obvious uses for Medicine, Survival and Insight.

Study: I like it. Now DMs have more guidance for how to use a few skills that were often forgotten or underused. I especially like that they straight up tell us which skill to use for monster knowledge check, like in 4e.

Hide: Oh, boy. It's terrible. The only thing I like is they specified that you need concealment or cover to stay hidden. The fact that they don't mention Passive Perception is extremely worrying, cutting it from the game would be a very bad idea.
If I HAD to fix this mess, I would remove the Hidden condition and change it into a Sneaking condition:

SNEAKING [CONDITION]
While you are Sneaking, you experience the following effects:
Limited Movement. You must spend 1 extra foot of movement for every foot you move using your Speed.
Concealed. Creatures with lower Passive Perception than your Dexterity Check (Stealth) can't affect you with any effect that requires its target to be seen.
Attacks Affected. Creatures with lower Passive Perception than your Dexterity Check (Stealth) have Disadvantage on their Attack Rolls against you, and your Attack Rolls have Advantage against them.
Ending the Condition. The Condition ends on you immediately after any of the following occurrences: you make a sound louder than a whisper, an enemy finds you, you make an Attack Roll, you cast a Spell with a verbal component, or you aren’t Heavily Obscured or behind any Cover. You can also end the condition voluntarily at any time during your turn.

HIDE [ACTION]
With the Hide Action, you try to conceal yourself. You can only use this action while you’re Heavily Obscured or behind Three-Quarters Cover or Total Cover, and you must be out of any visible enemy’s line of sight; if you can see a creature, you can discern whether it can see you.
After using the Hide action, you are Sneaking. At any time while you're Sneaking, the DM can ask you to make a Dexterity Check (Stealth). Make note of your check’s total, which becomes the DC for a creature to find you with a Wisdom Check (Perception) and will determine whether you can beat the Passive Perception of any casual observer.
 

No. Why would the Investigation skill come into play here? It’s used for checks that involve deductive reasoning, not sensory perception (which is covered by, you know, perception.)

I think they finally got it right.

They could not get it right before the release and then more or less deleted it from the game. Even going so far that they errated it out of the earlier adventures.
In the first printing of the PHB you saw were they just replaced investigation with perception.

I do really like the 3 actions that allow all 3 mental ability scores to shine

Even though influence is mostly done out of combat, you could use it in combat to intimidate someone to stand down.
 

Hide: Oh, boy. It's terrible. The only thing I like is they specified that you need concealment or cover to stay hidden. The fact that they don't mention Passive Perception is extremely worrying, cutting it from the game would be a very bad idea.
If I HAD to fix this mess, I would remove the Hidden condition and change it into a Sneaking condition:

SNEAKING [CONDITION]
While you are Sneaking, you experience the following effects:
Limited Movement. You must spend 1 extra foot of movement for every foot you move using your Speed.
Concealed. Creatures with lower Passive Perception than your Dexterity Check (Stealth) can't affect you with any effect that requires its target to be seen.
Attacks Affected. Creatures Advantage against them.
Ending the Condition. The Condition ends on you immediately after any of the following occurrences: you make a sound louder than a whisper, an enemy finds you, you make an Attack Roll, you cast a Spell with a verbal component, or you aren’t Heavily Obscured or behind any Cover. You can also end the condition voluntarily at any time during your turn.

HIDE [ACTION]
With the Hide Action, you try to conceal yourself. You can only use this action while you’re Heavily Obscured or behind Three-Quarters Cover or Total Cover, and you must be out of any visible enemy’s line of sight; if you can see a creature, you can discern whether it can see you.
After using the Hide action, you are Sneaking. At any time while you're Sneaking, the DM can ask you to make a Dexterity Check (Stealth). Make note of your check’s total, which becomes the DC for a creature to find you with a Wisdom Check (Perception) and will determine whether you can beat the Passive Perception of any casual observer.

So many people have tried to fix it. Although I don't particularly like the static DC, passive perception had to go.

This made the perecption skill way too big.
I'd rather have a static awareness defense.
8 (or 10) + int or wis + prof bonus.
Probably a class bonus for the rogue.
 

Minigiant

Legend
Supporter
Jump being an action is bad unless your base jump is good.

Jumping went form 3+Str Mod feet and Strength Score to flat 5 feet and 1d20+Str Mod+Prof Feet.

Weak. Strength Nerfed Again.​

 

Horwath

Hero
Jump as an action is completely stupid decision. it's -1/5 rank.
would like to be in the room when they brainstormed that one...

Help is great. You need to know what you are helping at.
Advantage should not come 100% free. 5/5

Hide should be 15 or Passive Perception. Like Con save for Concentration.
I see a logic in making it DC 15, so it is that you do not have to give large passive perceptions to everyone, as now Rogue gets to hide from most monsters with roll 1 on Stealth.

Study; should be free action. 1/5
 

For jump we could use the possibility to jump as a bonus action : Cunning action and an additional feature for athlete feat. Or simply a feature if you are trained in athletic or acrobatic. But I’m ok with some characters needing an action to jump.

for hiding I got mix feeling.
removing the surprise round is a good thing. Giving advantage on initiative is quite enough.
making hide a fix DC is easier to manage with multiple monsters, and sometime I feel that passive check give more hindrance than good for the game.
 
Last edited:


UngainlyTitan

Legend
Supporter
So; does search now find traps?
Does one have to study a trap before attempting to disarm it and does one get any benefit from do in so?
 

tetrasodium

Legend
Supporter
So; does search now find traps?
Does one have to study a trap before attempting to disarm it and does one get any benefit from do in so?
Unless this is a notice the noble's face before you walk onto the trap door in the throne room situation it doesn't. to find traps the study action would be needed so you could study the room(or whatever) in order to investigate for anything that jogs your memory as being reminiscent of a trap :D. If those memory jogging things are hidden it raises the DC to find them with the study action.

Players could sacrifice time to reduce the dc to study traps by searching the room for anything hidden but that's a tall task & no guarantee of finding anything because a good trap should be hidden in such a way that it doesn't appear that anything is hidden. Since that could take a long time & be inconclusive at best the players should focus on using the right action for the job they want to do rather than making a lot of noise attracting wandering/random monsters guards etc.
 


Olrox17

Hero
So; does search now find traps?
Does one have to study a trap before attempting to disarm it and does one get any benefit from do in so?
1- Yes.
2- DM's call. Personally, I wouldn't require a study->investigation check just to disable a pressure plate, or to correctly cut an activation wire. A successful investigation, however, would be required if you want to understand how a complex mechanism actually works, and the potential unintended consequences of messing with it.
 


DEFCON 1

Legend
Supporter
If Passive Perception is gone, this is a massive buff for Stealth. DC 15 is super-easy to hit for most stealthy characters, especially since most of them will have Expertise now.
I disagree. Most of the monsters in the MM (especially ones meant for Tiers 1 and 2) have Passive Perceptions that are 14 or lower. Which means it was actually easier for stealthy characters to avoid detection against most enemies with the old rules. Setting a DC at 15 regardless of the monster's Passive Perception means it's actually harder for characters to avoid detection, except when facing off against much stronger enemies who would lose out from having a PP over 15. But then again... I also wouldn't be surprised if more powerful monsters gained something in the new rules to compensate for the paradigm, should this DC 15 rule stick.
 

UngainlyTitan

Legend
Supporter
Unless this is a notice the noble's face before you walk onto the trap door in the throne room situation it doesn't. to find traps the study action would be needed so you could study the room(or whatever) in order to investigate for anything that jogs your memory as being reminiscent of a trap :D. If those memory jogging things are hidden it raises the DC to find them with the study action.

Players could sacrifice time to reduce the dc to study traps by searching the room for anything hidden but that's a tall task & no guarantee of finding anything because a good trap should be hidden in such a way that it doesn't appear that anything is hidden. Since that could take a long time & be inconclusive at best the players should focus on using the right action for the job they want to do rather than making a lot of noise attracting wandering/random monsters guards etc.
Ok a vote for Study
1- Yes.
2- DM's call. Personally, I wouldn't require a study->investigation check just to disable a pressure plate, or to correctly cut an activation wire. A successful investigation, however, would be required if you want to understand how a complex mechanism actually works, and the potential unintended consequences of messing with it.
and a vote against.
Kind of what I expected. Not 100% sure where I fall on this but thanks for the reponses.
 

Overall, not a fan... especially of the vertical leaps.

It's just weird that a Ranger/Rogue/commoner could jump to the top of a 10ft building, but then couldn't do anything else, while taking their time to climb it leaves them with plenty of time for other activities.
It would allow the option of climbing to take an action or jumping to have more movement, but the logic is completely wack.
 

An Advertisement

Advertisement4

Top