D&D General Active Defenses: Increasing Player Engagement

[mellored]

Also, let the most bored player track initiative.
And the second most board player track how much damage was dealt to each creature.

Maybe even let them roll creature damage

 

[Li Shenron]

Hi everyone! I've been thinking about how to make an Active Defense system. The big change to the system would be that AC and Save DCs would be rolled, but the main element would be that an aware defender gets to choose how they react to an attack.

For instance, if an enemy attacks with a melee weapon, the basic defenses could be Dodge, Parry, or Block. Each could use a different stat, but they could also have different results for success or failure. Parry could be more offensive, giving you advantage on your next attack against the target, and a failed parry could impose disadvantage or grant advantage to the enemy's next attack. Likewise, defending against spells could have choices too, like leaping out of the way or behind cover for a fireball vs covering your face and eyes.

My hope for such a system would be encouraging players to pay more attention when it's not their turn. It also allows players to feel like they have control of the action, not just waiting for things to happen to them.

But, to make it work, I think it would also need different basic attacks. If block used Strength, Dodge used Dexterity, and parry used your attacking stat, people would just use what's best. But maybe power attacks are harder to block, or attempting to parry a feint can be problematic.

This would definitely slow down combat, but I think the added tactics could make combat more dynamic and exciting. What do you think?

It can be interesting for players who want more control and tactical choices.

I would keep the things separate and independent, so you can use any combination:

1) rolling AC and save DC is very easy, you could replace the base 10 in AC with d20 and the base 8 in spells DC with 2d8 if you want to keep the probabilities close enough to the originals, or another dice combination that you prefer; the possible downside is twice as much dice rolling as before, but this is a matter of personal taste

2) allowing an ability score other than Dex for AC is more tricky, as Dex is also built in other relevant mechanics such as armor (heavy armor is less useful for those with high Dex because it is meant as an alternative, if you'd allow Str bonus instead of Dex to AC, it would give quite an advantage to characters who already use armors); as you say, in general players would always choose their best ability for everything, on the short term it will seem fun, on the long term they'll learn to do stat-dumping on every character

3) specific actions have more potential than the previous to make the game more interesting, because they are not just a numeric choice like "which one gives me the highest chance" but they fit with the narrative as well; I don't think they necessarily slow combat that much, as they are merely options and some players may not even look at that (just like many players never bother to consider shoving, grappling and such); however, too basic combat defensive actions such as block/parry/dodge on every single weapon attack, does make me think that every player just needs to figure out which is the one best for their PC, and then they'll just keep using it all the time, so the excitement is gone after the first combat

 

[Xeviat]

Have you heard of Douglas Cole's Dragon Heresy 5e-derivative?

Review: Dragon Heresy Introductory Set

Copyright 2018 Gaming Ballistic LLC (image source)

bira.github.io

I'll check it out!

 

[Xeviat]

I've been thinking about this a lot since the monk got changed so much in the 2024 update - in particular, they almost never have a wasted reaction or bonus action, so it feels much more involved. On the other hand, it also slows the game down.

I've been wondering if every class could be adjusted to have a basic bonus action. Fighting Styles could all use them, monks have martial arts, rogues have cunning action, and so on.

 

[Xeviat]

I think something like that might be better suited, or at least less of a drag on time, in a system where combat is a lot less common and more consequential. For example, in Call of Cthulhu 7, if you're involved in melee combat, you can either fight back or dodge - your choice. Each option has different consequences. But then CoC combat is a lot less common than D&D in general, so it doesn't feel like too much of a time sink. I'm not so sure I'd want that in D&D when fending off far more attacks than in CoC.

I actually did my last 5E campaign from 3rd to 12th levels with generally 3 deadly fights per adventuring day, so less but more impactful fights is up my alley.

 

[Xeviat]

Just have players roll AC "saves" and spell attacks.

Simply minus 10 from the player AC, and plus 10 to the monster attacks.

I.e.
15 attack vs 1d20+8 AC.
1d20 +5 dex attack vs 12 Dex defense.

That was part of it. But I'd want to tweak the success and failures so they feel like meaningful choices.

 

[aco175]

Just have players roll AC "saves" and spell attacks.

Simply minus 10 from the player AC, and plus 10 to the monster attacks.

I.e.
15 attack vs 1d20+8 AC.
1d20 +5 dex attack vs 12 Dex defense.

I have the players roll monster damage against their PC to speed things up. I also have the casters roll the monster save so they get to roll some dice.

I give out a hero pint/ inspiration token at the start of each game night to use for a reroll. I wonder if something like this could be expanded. Maybe a deck of cards to draw from to have for a defense.

Disadvantage on monster's attack
Move 3 squares before monster attack
+2 AC this turn
Nothing cool this turn
etc...

Maybe warriors get to draw two cards and choose one and casters only one card. You keep the card until you use it or maybe draw each turn. Seems like you would also need to boost monster damage to compensate though.

 

[mellored]

That was part of it. But I'd want to tweak the success and failures so they feel like meaningful choices.

Possibly add Cunning Strike to monsters, but leave it the players choice.

I.e.
Take 2d10+5 damage
Or
1d10+5 and fall prone.