[AD&D Gamebook] The Sorcerer's Crown (Kingdom of Sorcery, book 2 of 3)

[Joshua Randall]

Commentary, continued:

The following tables show each statement organized first by location and then by temporal order as best I can tell based on the verb tenses.

General Location: Tikandian mainland

Specific Location	Verb Phrase	Verb Tense = When
everywhere	The evil has already spread …	perfect = recent past
swamps	The paladins have left their guard posts….	perfect = recent past
swamps + Saven	[Arno] is using that [evil] power to control the paladin guards.	present continuous = now + ongoing into the future
Saven	Arno is at the cathedral in Saven, urging the arch cleric….	present continuous = now + ongoing into the future
Saven	You (Carr) must go to Saven and confront Arno with the sceptre. [says Perth]	imperative = immediate future

General Location: Seagate Island

Specific Location	Verb Phrase	Verb Tense = When
unknown	Arno has discovered a source of evil magical power….	perfect = recent past
College Arcane (?)	The evil that Arno has summoned….	perfect = recent past
College Arcane	Haslum tried to combat Arno’s designs and he vanished in the attempt.	preterite = non-recent past (but must occur after Arno discovered the source of evil power)
all ports	Those evil creatures now control….	present indicative = now
College Arcane	Come and wield the sceptre against the evil Arno in your father’s name. [Thayne says]	imperative = immediate future
College Arcane	We should consider another plan to get Arno out of the academy. [Carr says]	infinitive = future

What these tables mean to me:

(1)
The actual choice should not be between Saven and Seagate Island, because that is a choice between a specific location (a city) and a general location (an entire island).

The actual choice should be between either

• the Tikandian mainland vs. Seagate Island (general locations), or
• Saven vs. Freeton (specific cities). (Freeton is where the College Arcane is located.)

(2)
At some point prior to a year ago, Arno discovered some source of evil power. We don't know where that discovery took place.

AFTER that discovery, Arno then summoned something evil there.

AFTER Arno found and/or summoned evil things, Haslum tried to stop Arno. To do so, Haslum summoned a demon (WTF, Haslum!).

There is some verb tense confusion here because both of Arno's actions ("has discovered" a source of evil magical power and "has summoned" something) are in the perfect tense, which is usually recent past; while Haslum's actions ("tried" to stop Arno, then "vanished") are in the preterite which is usually non-recent past.

These verb tenses would normally imply that Haslum's actions took place longer ago than Arno's actions… except that doesn't make any sense. It is illogical to state that Haslum "tried" to stop Arno before Arno did anything that needed to be stopped. And moreso, it is very illogical to say "Haslum vanished" before Haslum confronted Arno.

Thus I assume that despite the perfect tense / preterite tense mix-up, the order is as I have it listed (Arno discovers a source of evil magical power; Arno summons something evil; Haslum tries to stop Arno; Haslum vanishes).

Anyway….

AFTER Haslum's defeat, Arno's evil then spread to the Tikandian mainland. This could mean figuratively (Arno's influence grew to encompass not just Seagate Island, but also Tikandia) or literally (the evil thing that Arno summoned physically relocated from Seagate Island to Tikandia).

AFTER that spread of evil, Arno used his power to suborn the paladins. And finally…

Arno IS CURRENTLY urging Archcleric Oram to send troops against the Kandians.

Note that this late statement means that Arno is physically located in Saven, right now.

(3)
Thayne's request that we go to Seagate Island / College Arcane and Perth's request that we go to Tikania / Saven are both present imperative commands to confront Arno at two different locations.

Thayne: "The evil that Arno has summoned to Seagate is more powerful than Archcleric Oran’s gods. Carr, you’ve got to use the Sceptre of Bhukod against this diabolical force! [...] Come back with me, Carr, and wield the sceptre against the evil Arno in your father’s name."

Perth: "Why go to Seagate?" Perth interrupts. "The evil has already spread to the Tikandian mainland. Carr, you must go to Saven and confront this Arno with the sceptre."

How can you be asked to go to two different places to confront the same person?

To make it even more confusing, earlier in his speech, Thayne stated that "even now" Arno is "at the cathedral in Saven", so Thayne doesn't agree with himself about where Arno is currently located.

If Arno is "even now" in Saven, then why would Thayne give the grammatical imperative command "come back with me" (to Seagate)?

In addition, Carr proposes that we need a better plan to get Arno out of the College Arcane which implies that is where Arno is located.

You could maybe twist the language here to mean that we need to remove Arno's influence over the College Arcane, but no normal person would say "we need to get so-and-so out of such-and-such place" if they meant "we need to remove so-and-so's influence over such-and-such place".

Bottom line: according to the book, Arno is in two places at the same time. Arno is simultaneously in Saven where he is urging the Archcleric Oram to send troops against the Kandians, and Arno is also on Seagate Island where he is… well, it's not clear; gloating over his defeat of Haslum, maybe?

---

I sympathize with gamebook author Morris Simon. This is an elaborate plot with multiple moving parts. (There are quite a few more moving parts that you, dear readers, don't know about yet.) That plot then has to be explained by multiple narrators -- mostly Thayne, but partially Carr's interior monologue, with a few tidbits from Perth and Dalris -- each with imperfect information. And that plot has to lead up to a choice of locations that is the first big split in gamebook paths.

The complexity got away from Dr. Simon and led to the confusing situation we have here.

---

All that said -- where should OUR Carr Delling go?

• Where this mess started: Freeton (College Arcane's location) on Seagate Island.
• Where Arno is now: Saven on the Tikandian mainland.

 

[gban007]

I think depends on what we think answer is to these two questions:
1. Will defeating Arno remove his influence anyway?
2. Is it an Ian Irvine type situation where go for clear threat (Arno) to find that the other threat is actually worse and we've made things worse by removing him first, e.g
What he released becomes unshackled and stronger.
Bit of a 50/50 one really, though if risk of second point, then assuming Arno won't get stronger getting rid of the thing he released first may be better.

 

[Jfdlsjfd]

Wow... I am wowed by the depth of your grammatical rant.

However, we do take our information on the timeline and location from a very specific set of people:

• Perth (OK)
• Dalris, who spent several of her formative years getting fighter training.
• Carr's inner monologue, who was actually raised by a school dropout with more contact with goats than other humans
• Thayne, a drunken half-elf of dubious lineage

None of them are linguists. Are we sure we can apply your in-depth grammatical analysis or are they just using tenses as it comes to them?

Also, going by my hypothesis that the author has confused Saven and Freeton, we can safely go to the College Arcane and do both.

Since it is a branching of the path, they are probably actual, different places, but there are still a solution to explain the ability to be somehow in those two places.

We could be fooled by the earlier map's implied dimensions.

Actually, Pirate's Alley DOES separate Seagate Island from the Kandian mainland, the same way Martha's Wineyard is off mainland America. Maybe you can actually see Saven from Freeton. 40 years ago, Landor just wanted some peace to study and teach magic and built his school just off the big city... He got a feudal title over the island, but didn't really develop it since he was focussed on building his academy over a very old crypt. And it became much easier to smuggle goods there, with few honest custom officers because Landor didn't care about mundane policing, before moving them back to Saven, rather than trying to smuggle loot into Saven directly. It's called Pirate Alley not because there is a lot of pirating, but because it's the way pirates use to fence their loot.

 

[Joshua Randall]

Is it an Ian Irvine type situation

I wasn’t familiar with Ian Irvine. Cool!

where go for clear threat (Arno) to find that the other threat is actually worse and we've made things worse by removing him first, e.g
What he released becomes unshackled and stronger.

It could be something like that. I am not at liberty to say. I have to clean up my pre-written notes to make sure I don’t give something away that “we” couldn’t possibly know until later.

assuming Arno won't get stronger getting rid of the thing he released first may be better.

Noted!

Wow... I am wowed by the depth of your grammatical rant.

Then it was all worthwhile.

Also, going by my hypothesis that the author has confused Saven and Freeton, […] Since it is a branching of the path, they are probably actual, different places, but there are still a solution to explain the ability to be somehow in those two places.

I will reveal from my reading ahead (plus recollections of this book from decades ago) that whatever Morris Simon’s confusion about Saven and Freeton, they are not in fact the same place in the gamebook. I do still agree there is evidence that perhaps at one point they were the same place, or the plot was all supposed to occur in one location.

we can safely go to the College Arcane and do both.

Noted!

Maybe you can actually see Saven from Freeton.

I have always assumed it was something like that, like Pirate’s Alley is similar to the English Channel. (Or should that be, la Manche.) Fairly narrow such that you can see across it.

---

121, redux harder

We toss everything on top of the cloak, along with a small dagger for good measure, and then fall asleep still trying to decide whether to begin our mission in
(95) Saven or
(137) Seagate Island.

---

After much debate, rants, grammar discussion, and tables painstakingly created, I decide that OUR Carr Delling should go to Saven. It makes more sense to me —

record scratch

This isn’t just about ME any more. It’s about you, dear readers. And especially about YOU @gban007 and @Jfdlsjfd !

We go to Seagate Island.

(I’m sure these hundreds of words I have written about the Saven path will not be needed. No sirree.)

 

[Jfdlsjfd]

If the book has two path that are as different as the two path to learn magic in the first, I will for sure want to know what was behind the other path in the after-game analysis!

 

[Joshua Randall]

137

You’re out of bed and dressed before the yellow Tikandian sun casts its first rays through the huge oaks guarding Wealwood. Grabbing your gear and a rolled map, you shut the door behind you. Landor’s secrets were safe under Perth’s watchful eyes for nearly twenty years, and the archdruid permits no locked doors in his sacred grove.

Our stuff will be safe with Perth so we grab our map and our cloak and meet Dalris and Rufyl outside. Dalris says we look like a minstrel in our bright cloak and we reply that we hope any guards we run into will think the same thing.

We ask where Perth is. Dalris says he still chants over Thayne’s body and will do so until there is no hope. She asks if we’ve decided where we should begin our quest.

”We must discover the source of whatever power Arno is using to corrupt the paladins, and that means we have to start on Seagate Island where he started,” you tell your companions. “While we know Arno’s in Saven, we have a perfect opportunity to scout the Island. If we find what we’re looking for, maybe we can sabotage Arno’s deal with Archcleric Oram and his corrupt paladins by undercutting his base of power!”

Dalris says she’ll take care of getting us to the island via one of her kinsmen’s fishing boats. They readily agree to take us, “not only because she’s the archdruid’s daughter. They clearly like and respect Dalris for herself.” [Aww!]

We spend the day fishing (well, the fishermen do) until sundown when the boat’s master shows us a map of Pirate’s Alley by the light of a lantern. He asks where we want to land.

We study the map and state there are “only three ways to get past Arno’s barricade.”

1. Delmer, our mother’s old village.
2. Freeton, because “fishing and trade must continue”.
3. The southern coast, then work our way through the marsh to Thayne’s people in the highlands.

Dalris asks which is least likely to be guarded. ”That’s anyone’s guess,” we reply. “Thayne might be able to tell us, but he’s dead.”

Our genius plan is that we just have to choose one and hope we’re lucky.
(2) Delmer
(57) Freeton
(80) “the uninhabited southern side of the island”

 

[Joshua Randall]

Commentary:

“While we know Arno’s in Saven, we have a perfect opportunity to scout the Island.”

This is a surprisingly cogent and logical analysis by Carr. Maybe his WIS has increased due to proximity to so many druids.

We study the map and state there are “only three ways to get past Arno’s barricade.”

Why only three?

Also when it’s at sea I believe it is called a “blockade”, not a “barricade”.

Dalris asks which is least likely to be guarded.
”That’s anyone’s guess,” we reply. “Thayne might be able to tell us, but he’s dead.”

“Guess”, “might”… more wishy-washy language.

Our genius plan is that we just have to choose one and hope we’re lucky.

Carr has perfectly encapsulated the gamebook playing philosophy. Very fourth-wall breaking and meta!

 

[gban007]

I'd go Delmer if only for the poignant 'hero revisits where he was born' type thing

 

[Jfdlsjfd]

I'd go Delmer if only for the poignant 'hero revisits where he was born' type thing

I'd go Delmer if only for the opportunity to fireball my moronic cousins.

 

[Joshua Randall]

OUR Carr Delling says "We'll just have to choose one [place to land] and hope we're lucky." But we can do better than that.

We know that ultimately we want to investigate the College Arcane at Freeton. However, we also know that our only possible ally there, Haslum, got his dumb-ass killed by a demon he summoned. Quantum-uncertainty-Arno either is or is not still at the College Arcane and may or may not have summoned his own bad evil thing.

That's two possible evil summoned things, plus both Arno and not-Arno at the College Arcane. So to go directly to Freeton seems risky.

Based on book 1 and OUR Carr Delling, we did not learn magic from Thayne nor spend time with his people in the highlands. OUR Carr Delling never met Thayne's aunt Estla, the blind and therefor virtuous aura-reading elf who definitely does not remember anything about the events of 200 years ago nor has any living relatives old enough to tell us first-hand information from the fall of Bhukod 500 years ago, even though that was early middle-age for them.

Therefore to show up in Thayne's village and drop the info that he is dead seems unlikely to endear us to the elves.

That leaves Delmer. Which has the potential for a run-in with Ulrik at which time we can show off our magical mojo. And once we are finished with our petty display of power, we can talk to Wendel the shaman, our only friend from those sheep-herding and stale-bread-eating days, who provided funeral rites to our mother Marla and also seemed to know more about the Archcleric Oram situation than he let on in book 1. Given Oram's renewed relevance to the story, we should hear what Wendel can tell us.

We also know there is a path from Delmer to Freeton because OUR Carr Delling took that path in book 1. Presumably, that path will be less well guarded than the seaward approach to Freeton's docks. So after we show off to Ulrik and talk to Wendel, we can leave Delmer and go to Freeton to figure out what's up at the College Arcane.