D&D 1E AD&D paladin strictures

[Shiroiken]

1E Paladins were a pain the #$@. High requirements, one of the stronger classes, and tormented the other players. I'd rather see a CE Assassin in the party, knowing they're gonna betray the party eventually, than a 1E paladin. The only time I've successfully had a 1E paladin work, the character (not the player) was completely unaware of the CN magic-user who was doing all kinds of nastiness behind the scenes. The rest of the party were either within the restrictions, or were multi-classed enough to hide their rogue aspects.

 

[Fenris-77]

The extent to which 1E Paladins are a pain in the ass has very little to do with the mechanics, and everything to do with the people involved, the DM and a Player. In both cases, the class rides right off the rails for me as soon as either person starts using the class mechanics to start telling other people how to play. In the case of the DM this is the above-mentioned propensity for treating the alignment rules like a stick to beat the character into the desired shape. In the case of the player it the occasions where the strictures of the class are used as an excuse to bully the other players, generally with the intention of assuming more of a leadership or decision making role in the party. With a reasonable player and DM who are both more interested in the narrative success of the table and character growth, I don't think the class presents any inherent problems that aren't easy to fix without changing too much.

 

[JonnyP71]

The extent to which 1E Paladins are a pain in the ass has very little to do with the mechanics, and everything to do with the people involved, the DM and a Player.

Precisely this - running 1E with adults nowadays I see very few Paladins, but when I ran games in my teens, the Paladin class seemed to attract a certain type of player. I remember one person in particular - problem was, we played at his house as he had more space and parents who didn't mind half a dozen screaming argumenative teens being there... And there'd be no D&D at all if HE couldn't play a Paladin...

 

[Voadam]

I remember 1e detect evil being a pain because it was not just alignment but detected evil intentions, which is annoying to adjudicate. I was glad when later editions eliminated that aspect.

 

[Ralif Redhammer]

Though I don't think the Elenium series holds up as well, years later, Sparhawk absolutely was an eye-opener as to what a paladin could be. I'd also say the same for Priam Agrivar, from the old Forgotten Realms comics. Both brought the idea that a paladin didn't have to be a joyless, grim officer of Law and Good, but could be kind.

Sparhawk greatest Paladin ever.

 

[Maxperson]

I always found the biggest headache with Paladins is their unwillingness (or outright refusal) to associate with anyone not of a mostly-similar alignment/ethos/outlook on life; which in our crew invariably runs smack into a general preference for playing characters who aren't necessarily always Good (or Lawful, I treat the G-E and L-C axes as having equal importance). Not that they're all Evil, mind; but there's often a lot of L-T-C Neutrals floating around.

I've fixed this*, I hope, by designing Paladins to fit any of the four extremes (LG,CG,LE,CE); in hopes that CG Paladins will be more likely to fit in to typical-around-here adventuring parties and that LE and-or CE ones will give me some potentially interesting foes to run.

I've already got some 'unofficial' ideas as to how a CG Paladin would work in play, as there's a longstanding PC in my current game who - though technically a War Cleric - has been in some ways played like a CG Paladin for most of his career.

* - in theory. It's a relatively recent thing (as in, last year) and nobody's rolled up a new-style Paladin yet; nor have I managed to yet work one in as a foe.

In my 3e games I changed Paladins to be holy warriors of their faith. The book Paladin and its tenets worked for gods like Torm or Tyr, but failed for gods like Mystra or Mask. So if a player wanted to play a Paladin of Mystra, I worked with the player to design new abilities and tenets that would work with Mystra. For example, Detect Magic instead of Detect Evil.

 

[Maxperson]

Sparhawk greatest Paladin ever. Not all church knights were Paladin's though some sucked at spells lol. A few might be war clerics.

They were all Paladins I think. Sucking at spells meant that they still had them, but weren't great at it. And I agree that Sparhawk was the best Paladin I've read in a book, though Michael from the Dresden Files comes in almost equal.

 

[Maxperson]

Though I don't think the Elenium series holds up as well, years later, Sparhawk absolutely was an eye-opener as to what a paladin could be. I'd also say the same for Priam Agrivar, from the old Forgotten Realms comics. Both brought the idea that a paladin didn't have to be a joyless, grim officer of Law and Good, but could be kind.

If you read the Dresden Files(and I highly recommend them), Michael, Sanya and Shiro are very good examples of Paladins as well.

 

[Mort]

If you read the Dresden Files(and I highly recommend them), Michael, Sanya and Shiro are very good examples of Paladins as well.

I really like Sanya - a truly great representation of an atypical paladin - he's even agnostic possibly an atheist!

"Laugh whenever you can. Keeps you from killing yourself when things are bad. That and vodka."— Sanya

 

[Dioltach]

For Lawful Evil paladins, try the Rose of the Prophet trilogy by Weiss & Hickman. A very interesting take.