AD&D Publication Timeline -- weird
- Thread starter Bullgrit
- Start date
I don't remember which book I got first.
Probably MM, then PHB, then DMG. But I played a Basic/AD&D game all the way up to 2e. I am sure a lot of people at least mixed the Basic and Advanced modules (thanks for using the proper term in your original post).
I never found it to be a problem, of course I ended up having reams of house rules. But that's how we rolled back in the day.
Probably MM, then PHB, then DMG. But I played a Basic/AD&D game all the way up to 2e. I am sure a lot of people at least mixed the Basic and Advanced modules (thanks for using the proper term in your original post).
I never found it to be a problem, of course I ended up having reams of house rules. But that's how we rolled back in the day.
TerraDave
5ever, or until 2024
I also think the MM was 77. Probably should add that?
It was odd in a way, and I remember waiting for T2...and wondering why all this cool stuff was such high level...but the answer was OD&D. All that was efftively OD&D supplements up to 79, when AD&D could then replace OD&D. In that sense, not so odd.
It was odd in a way, and I remember waiting for T2...and wondering why all this cool stuff was such high level...but the answer was OD&D. All that was efftively OD&D supplements up to 79, when AD&D could then replace OD&D. In that sense, not so odd.
JamesM
First Post
The Monster Manual's first printing was in December 1977. Though released under the AD&D banner, it is closely compatible with OD&D, since it uses a 0 to 9 AC system rather than the 0 to 10 system. Psionic abilities are those from Supplement III, Eldritch Wizardry. However, the book uses the fivefold alignment system introduced in the pages of Dragon.
The Holmes-edited Basic Set was first released in late 1977/early 1978 and was intended as both a re-presentation of OD&D (with which it is largely compatible) and as an intro to the still-unpublished AD&D.
The Players Handbook's first printing was in June 1978.
A preview of the DMG's contents, including attack tables, was released in issue #22 of Dragon.
The Dungeon Masters Guide's first printing was in August 1979.
While it's true that Gary Gygax did promote the idea that OD&D and AD&D were different games with different target audiences, that didn't stop gamers -- of necessity at times -- mixing and matching between them. It's perfectly possible to play "AD&D" using only the MM and PHB supplemented with the LBBs for combat and saving throw charts, which is what many did in the time before the DMG or the preview of its contents were published.
I think the notion that everyone just accepted TSR's stark division between the two is absurd on the face of it and contrary to what actually happened at the time. Heck, I didn't enter the hobby until shortly after the DMG was published and I still knew people who freely mixed and matched between OD&D and AD&D. Likewise, the level ranges of the published modules only seem odd if you see discontinuity between the two iterations of the game. Those modules might have been branded "Advanced Dungeons & Dragons," but they're quite usable with OD&D, with little or no modification.
It's also vital to remember that modules were a strange innovation at the time. Most referees made their own adventures, so there was no perceived "need" for a lot of adventures covering a wide range of levels. As I recall, TSR wasn't sure modules would even sell at first. After all, who'd pay to have someone imagine for you? Once it was clear money could be made in this fashion, they changed tacks and the rest is history.
The Holmes-edited Basic Set was first released in late 1977/early 1978 and was intended as both a re-presentation of OD&D (with which it is largely compatible) and as an intro to the still-unpublished AD&D.
The Players Handbook's first printing was in June 1978.
A preview of the DMG's contents, including attack tables, was released in issue #22 of Dragon.
The Dungeon Masters Guide's first printing was in August 1979.
While it's true that Gary Gygax did promote the idea that OD&D and AD&D were different games with different target audiences, that didn't stop gamers -- of necessity at times -- mixing and matching between them. It's perfectly possible to play "AD&D" using only the MM and PHB supplemented with the LBBs for combat and saving throw charts, which is what many did in the time before the DMG or the preview of its contents were published.
I think the notion that everyone just accepted TSR's stark division between the two is absurd on the face of it and contrary to what actually happened at the time. Heck, I didn't enter the hobby until shortly after the DMG was published and I still knew people who freely mixed and matched between OD&D and AD&D. Likewise, the level ranges of the published modules only seem odd if you see discontinuity between the two iterations of the game. Those modules might have been branded "Advanced Dungeons & Dragons," but they're quite usable with OD&D, with little or no modification.
It's also vital to remember that modules were a strange innovation at the time. Most referees made their own adventures, so there was no perceived "need" for a lot of adventures covering a wide range of levels. As I recall, TSR wasn't sure modules would even sell at first. After all, who'd pay to have someone imagine for you? Once it was clear money could be made in this fashion, they changed tacks and the rest is history.
Whizbang Dustyboots
Gnometown Hero
I was playing (and buying) back when the modules were just duo-tone -- they went color with A1, although C1 came out duo-tone. No one was at all concerned about AD&D and BD&D being different games -- we all used whichever modules or supplements we wished, mixing and matching.
We saved our angst for why it was taking so long to get Q1 and (especially) T2, since T1 was so popular and T2 was meant to be the immediate follow-on.
We saved our angst for why it was taking so long to get Q1 and (especially) T2, since T1 was so popular and T2 was meant to be the immediate follow-on.
UnknownAtThisTime
First Post
Now wait a minute: Nobody here is suggesting that people actually enjoyed a game with some disjointed rules, poor release roadmaps, inconsistent communication, and unclear product delineation, are they?
JeffB
Legend
I recall my first game of D&D utilized the LBBs, and then a couple months later someone got the MM. I went out and bought the LBBs, and the MM (along with G1,2,3) when I started running games myself which was late 78.
The Holmes book, PHB and DMG didn't show up on any of our tables until probably 1980 or so..when the games poularity shot through the roof, and every book, catalog, & toy store started carrying TSR product.
I believe if you look into it, some of those books had published dates of X, but were released some time later. I believe the PHB was delayed until basically 1979, and the first DMGs were recalled because of printing errors, so they didn't show up until pretty much 1980 as well.
The Holmes book, PHB and DMG didn't show up on any of our tables until probably 1980 or so..when the games poularity shot through the roof, and every book, catalog, & toy store started carrying TSR product.
I believe if you look into it, some of those books had published dates of X, but were released some time later. I believe the PHB was delayed until basically 1979, and the first DMGs were recalled because of printing errors, so they didn't show up until pretty much 1980 as well.
Bullgrit
Adventurer
I started with BD&D in 1980, switching "up" to AD&D a year or two later. We mixed and matched material between the two versions without any thought about them. But that's not how TSR apparently intended or wanted things to go, (judging from what they said at the time).
What I find interesting is not how we ended up using the materials, but rather what was the thinking at TSR with releasing the material the way they did. And secondarily, I wonder if we lost potential gamers because of the pattern.
Obviously the game sold and hit well enough. But its success seems to be despite the wonky publication schedule. Is there an example of another product that became such a phenomenon of its time like this with such a backasswards release schedule?
Edit: What is "LBB"?
Bullgrit
What I find interesting is not how we ended up using the materials, but rather what was the thinking at TSR with releasing the material the way they did. And secondarily, I wonder if we lost potential gamers because of the pattern.
Obviously the game sold and hit well enough. But its success seems to be despite the wonky publication schedule. Is there an example of another product that became such a phenomenon of its time like this with such a backasswards release schedule?
Edit: What is "LBB"?
Bullgrit
Lord Crimson
Explorer
Keep in mind that these were the days before the interwebs, too. Most people didn't even know that there was supposed to be any kind of division between the two unless they were an avid gaming magazine reader.
A lot of our knowledge of this stuff is hindsight after the advent of constant online communication and rehashing of things 20-odd years old at the time.
darkseraphim
Explorer
Hi,
From what I understand, Gygax began planning AD&D in mid-1976. The Monster Manual came out in 1977, perhaps because it was the least disruptive to apply to ongoing campaigns at the time (some of which had been going for several years).
The modules were released to a crowd that had already been playing (O)D&D for several years and were looking for new challenges to make things harder for veterans. Consider that each of the modules D1-3/G1-3 is a tournament (competitive play) module, and S1 is Gygax’s hardest dungeon by his own design. So it stands to reason that “Advanced” at the time implied “So you think you’re good, and you’ve seen and survived everything? Try these.”
That shifted once the Players Handbook was disseminated in 1978-1979. The message there seemed to be “Hey, reroll, we’ve fixed the game’s problems and you don’t need to house-rule everything anymore.” This makes more sense from an historical perspective if you read The Strategic Review issues and the early Dragon issues (1976-1978) in order.
The “hey, reroll” movement was ushered in with T1 in 1979. Granted the giant frogs are a TPK to most non-veteran players, but hey, there wasn’t a scientific method to these things yet. =P The DMG has a story of its own; basically it was really hard to write, needed the PHB foundation, and there were printer nightmares, so it was 1979 with some people not having it until early 1980.
1980 marks the year when Gygax got swamped with D&D explosive growth following the Egbert incident, and thus others were writing for the system. Note that A1, C1, C2 and S3 are tournament works. The level spreads began to change because you had the “hey, reroll” crowd plus the veterans and a fair distribution of players across all levels.
Q1 is a different case; Gygax was hoping to write it but had too many irons in the fire, so it got written by Sutherland, if I recall.
In 1981, A2, A3 and A4 were wrap-ups of the A series by different authors and their individual takes on competitive D&D. There are some interesting design notes in Dragon. I1 is a separate deal, pet project. L1 is Lakofka bringing his campaign to the table (hence low level), while U1 is the first TSR module contribution from the guys across the pond. They had already been doing their thing pretty extensively with White Dwarf and Games Workshop. Fiend Folio was around this time as well.
TLDR, these were the forerunner products. 1977, first RPG hardcover. 1978, first massively revised edition of an RPG (I think). 1978, experiment with pre-planned dungeons following Palace of the Vampire Queen’s success. Etc.
From what I understand, Gygax began planning AD&D in mid-1976. The Monster Manual came out in 1977, perhaps because it was the least disruptive to apply to ongoing campaigns at the time (some of which had been going for several years).
The modules were released to a crowd that had already been playing (O)D&D for several years and were looking for new challenges to make things harder for veterans. Consider that each of the modules D1-3/G1-3 is a tournament (competitive play) module, and S1 is Gygax’s hardest dungeon by his own design. So it stands to reason that “Advanced” at the time implied “So you think you’re good, and you’ve seen and survived everything? Try these.”
That shifted once the Players Handbook was disseminated in 1978-1979. The message there seemed to be “Hey, reroll, we’ve fixed the game’s problems and you don’t need to house-rule everything anymore.” This makes more sense from an historical perspective if you read The Strategic Review issues and the early Dragon issues (1976-1978) in order.
The “hey, reroll” movement was ushered in with T1 in 1979. Granted the giant frogs are a TPK to most non-veteran players, but hey, there wasn’t a scientific method to these things yet. =P The DMG has a story of its own; basically it was really hard to write, needed the PHB foundation, and there were printer nightmares, so it was 1979 with some people not having it until early 1980.
1980 marks the year when Gygax got swamped with D&D explosive growth following the Egbert incident, and thus others were writing for the system. Note that A1, C1, C2 and S3 are tournament works. The level spreads began to change because you had the “hey, reroll” crowd plus the veterans and a fair distribution of players across all levels.
Q1 is a different case; Gygax was hoping to write it but had too many irons in the fire, so it got written by Sutherland, if I recall.
In 1981, A2, A3 and A4 were wrap-ups of the A series by different authors and their individual takes on competitive D&D. There are some interesting design notes in Dragon. I1 is a separate deal, pet project. L1 is Lakofka bringing his campaign to the table (hence low level), while U1 is the first TSR module contribution from the guys across the pond. They had already been doing their thing pretty extensively with White Dwarf and Games Workshop. Fiend Folio was around this time as well.
TLDR, these were the forerunner products. 1977, first RPG hardcover. 1978, first massively revised edition of an RPG (I think). 1978, experiment with pre-planned dungeons following Palace of the Vampire Queen’s success. Etc.
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