AD&D2E: Complete Paladins Handbook

[FireLance]

What kind of stuff does the Undead Slayer from complete elves get? And is Complete Elves a good product? (Also, would it be possible to port a blade singer and an undead slayer into a 2E darksun game without ruining the feel of Athas?)

Undead Slayers may select a form of undead, and gain a +2 to hit and damage against them. The rules don't define what a "form" is, but it seems reasonable to assume that vampires, liches, mummies, ghosts, etc. are each a separate form.

In addition, it is stated that they can hunt the undead more effectively, e.g. find the general area of a vampire's lair by listening to rumors and observing local phenomena, but no mechanics are given.

As for hindrances, they will take every available opportunity to destroy an undead creature, even if it costs them their lives, or if the undead is good or friendly. In addition, they must buy two vials of holy water and a silver mirror before buying any other equipment.

Lastly, how is complete barbarian? 2E didin't even have the barbarian class, so this book looks kind of odd,

Complete barbarian presents two new classes to represent the barbarian warrior and the tribal shaman. It includes several kits which represent various barbarian or primitive cultures such as the Brushrunner, Forest Lord, Islander, Plainsrider, Dreamwalker, etc. It also introduces several new barbarian-themed NWPs.

 

[Orius]

I'll have to agree with the general concensus here: Paladin's Handbook was a fairly middle of the road 2e splat, not too overpowered, but useful. However it did focus very heavily on the European knight in shining armor achetype; the full color illustration plates in the book all showed this sort of character, as well as the black and white illos, and there was at least one sidebar on the history of the European knight. It might seem dated today, but it was typical for 2e sensibilities. Many of the kits also fell into this sensibility, but there was the Ghosthunter or Wyrmslayer; there were also kit ideas for the DM to develop that might have been a bit more original. And where the Bard, Ranger, and I think Druid Handbooks had kit options for those classes for races that normally didn't allow them, the Paladin's Handbook just said, "make a fighter/cleric."

Ranger's Handbook was pretty solid too. Like the Druid Handbook, it presented the core ranger as a class whose abilities were focused on a forest terrain, and added ranger versions for other terrain types like mountains, deserts, even the Underdark (IIRC). There were companion lists that took the different terrains into account, so a mountain ranger might get dwarves rather than elves as followers, for example. There were new spells, magic items, and equipment (much of the equipment was survival type gear). Kits allowed for races other than human, elf, or half-elf rangers, so if you wanted a dwarf ranger you'd have to take a particular kit like Mountain Man. Finally there was a good section on RPing rangers, and running ranger campaigns I think.

Both Paladin and Ranger had an appendix which recapped the basic 1e rules on the classes.

Ninja's Handbook was about the closest 2e ever got to a conversion of OA. There were 2e martial arts rules, ninja style kits for most classes besides the ninja, a nice list of good NWPs for rogue characters, and some interesting equipment. There was a section on running a ninja campaign which gave some great details on how a ninja character would act and how a ninja clan would be set up. There were also rules for making characters similar to ninjas but who weren't ninjas, and suggestions for organizations that functioned in a way similar to a ninja clan (I particularly liked the Priests of Yan-Keegor (sp?)).

 

[Sitara]

Well, I got and read through the pally handbook. Its definately worth it (the full color palletes are awesome). And you know, I do have to say I keep getting surprised by how elegent 2E stuff feels, at least its presentation. I guess i never appreciated it before.

Anyhow, the Ghosthunter is indeed a sweet kit, and gets even sweeter if the gm allows the pally to get his holy sword by level 6. The mount rules are cool. The wyrmslayer kit is fun, though it does look VERY situational, and kind of weak. I mean, if the gm doesn't include the dragon of your chosen color, you are screwed. Also, the power of this kit does seem to come into play at higher leels, when you fight against dragons.

Lastly, I wish there were a few paladin specific spells in their (like 3e's holy sword spell)

 

[Orius]

Aw, and here I dug up my copy of the Paladin Handbook to give a breakdown. As you can see, it does tend to steer the player toward a specific sort of paladin; and the infamous Cedric the unpaladin has no place in the book. What a shame.

Some of those old kits really do require the DM and player to be on the same page. If you're in a campaign that's run like te Knights of the Dinner Table though, forget it.

Anyway, in case you want to know, here's a breakdown of Ranger:

Chapter 1: Character Creation

Pretty much like Chapter 1 of Paladin's Handbook. Basically recaps and expands on the PHB rules. Has a table where you can randomly roll for pregenerated ability scores. Has a table listing kit adjustments for ranger abilities, and a table listing expanded skill penalties for heavier armor (probably based on the original table from the Thief's Handbook). Selection of primary terrain, ranger abilities and kits in the book depend on what sort of terrain in which the ranger is specialized.

Chapter 2: Ranger Abilities

Explores the major ranger abilities in detail: Tracking bonuses, stealth abilities, species enemy, animal empathy. Has tables with recommeded species enemy by terrain type.

Chapter 3: Followers

Tables for followers based on the ranger's terrain. Rules for training and handling animal followers. Sidebar on falconry.

Chapter 4: Ranger Kits

The usual introduction section on kits.

Kits:

Beastmaster: Pretty much inspired by the movie, the Beastmaster has improved animal companions and telepathic communication with them. Little wealth, no strongholds.

Explorer: Focuses on exploring new areas. The explorer can adapt easily to new cultures, but has fewer followers.

Falconer: Specializes in using birds of prey.

Feralan: Lost in the wilderness as a child and raised by animals, in the vein of Kipling's The Jungle Book. More steathy, has a rage ability, and better animal empathy at the cost of less magic, wealth, and a stronghold.

Forest Runner: Basically Robin Hood.

Giant Killer: Speicalizes in killing giants. Greater species enemy bonuses vs. giants, but can only track giants.

Greenwood Ranger: The weirdest kit of 2e, the ranger can transform himself into a walking tree stump with three arms. Limited magic, move silently penalty, extra damage from fire.

Guardian: A ranger who has a duty to watch over a specific tract of land.

Justifier: A ranger who focuses his combat and stealth abilities at the expence of magic use and proficiences.

Mountain Man: Prefers roughing it in the wilderness to civilization. Gains human followers less often, usually replaced by a bear. Elf followers replaced by dwarves. The Mountain Man is hardy and can resist death better, but has limited magic, wealth, and does not build strongholds.

Pathfinder: An expert on blazing trails in the wilderness.

Sea Ranger: A ranger whose makes his home on a body of water. His abilites are largely aqautic in nature, and he gives up Hide and Move Silently abilities.

Seeker: A spiritual type ranger who seeks to commune with nature. Improved spell use, must meditate, and has a sacred animal type which he must protect.

Stalker: Ranger who specializes in stealth.

Warden: Guards a tract of land for a lord. A lot like the guardian, but this kit has a boss.

Some ideas for more kits. Rules for demi-rangers, allowing dwarves, gnomes and halfling to become rangers, but they have to take specific kits.

Chapter 5: Proficiencies

Notes on NWPs from the PHB that are especially appropriate for rangers.

New NWPs:

• Alertness
• Boating
• Camouflage
• Cartography
• Distance Sense
• Falconry
• Foraging
• Persuasion
• Sea-based Riding
• Signaling
• Spelunking
• Trail Marking
• Veterinary Healing
• Weaponsmithing, Crude

Chapter 6: Magic

New spells and magic items for the ranger.

Chapter 7: Equipment

Lots of survival type equipment here, and stuff like dog sleds and falconry gear.

Chapter 8: Role Playing

Self-explainatory.

Chapter 9: Rangers and Religion

Talks about the beliefs of rangers, relationships with druids and clerics.

Chapter 10: Foregatherings

Describes festivals were rangers get together and socialize.

Appendix:

Recaps the 1e ranger rules from the PHB and maybe UA.

Ends with a character sheet for photocopying.

 

[Sitara]

Sweet! Thanks Orious.

Coukld you do me another favor and expand more on the Guardian, Justifier and Beastmaster and Stalker Kits? (the last two were also in bg2 if I recall correctly)

 

[Contrarian]

I'm curious: What was the rationale for recapping First Edition rules in the Paladin and Ranger handbooks?

 

[Voadam]

I'm curious: What was the rationale for recapping First Edition rules in the Paladin and Ranger handbooks?

Complete X Handbook would be my guess.

 

[Thondor]

Wish I had seen this thread earlier on.'
The Paladin's handbook was the first D&D book I ever bought, and one of the better purchases too. i certainly wasn't disapointed. It is a great book for anyone who has a propensity for playing paladin's. The flavor is great, so is the art, and I've mine a number of the ideas from it over the years. The detailed explaination of all the paladins standard abilities are extremely clear. Overall very well written, I miss the sort of flavour that the book had.
I bought it because I was playing paladin's both of who had been named Thondor (one started the Temple of Elemental Evil -- we finished the moat house but not much else) This was way back in grade 8. Which was the last time I ever played as a player until this Christmas. It is great to take a break from GMing! (Played a wizard the only other type of character I'd ever played.)
Sorry for the ramble but it reminded me of the past. Wish I had got to play some of those kits.

Thondor

 

[Hussar]

Count me in as another who like the Complete Paladin. Yeah, it was totally locked into the Euro Knight thing, which was unfortunate - I couldn't get my DM to drop that mindset ever - but, it did have some very cool stuff. The Votary kit was one of my favorites. A paladin with a definite edge.

One of my fav 2e splats.

 

[Orius]

Sweet! Thanks Orious.

Coukld you do me another favor and expand more on the Guardian, Justifier and Beastmaster and Stalker Kits? (the last two were also in bg2 if I recall correctly)

Beastmaster:

Weapon proficiencies: initially limited to axe (any), club, dagger, dart, javelin, knife, quarterstaff, sling or spear.

NWP:
Recommended: Agriculture, bowyer/fletcher, endurance, hunting, leather working, running, swimming, weather sense.

Barred: Armorer, etiquette, heraldry, navigation, weaponsmithing.

Followers: none, replaced with special benefit.

Special Benefits: +5% chance to hide in natural settings. Doesn't gain followers normally, but gains animal henchmen at any level based on Charisma. Telepathic communication with any animal within 30'. Forms a mental bond with animal henchmen, can see through the eyes of an animal henchmen by concentrating. Can summon an animal horde to fight for him at 9th level.

Special Hindrances: Suffers empathic shock when an animal henchman is wounded or killed. The henchmen are free willed and not under the control of the Beastmaster, and come and go as they please. Reaction penalty to NPCs. Starting gold of 1d4 x 10 gp. Does not build a fortress, but at 9th level can protect an area of land equal to a barony.

Guardian:

NWP:
Bonus: Hunting or fishing.
Recommended: Agriculture, bowyer/fletcher, fire-building, fishing, foraging, herbalism, hunting, land-based riding, rope use, set snares, simming, veterinary healing, weather sense.

Followers: Gets at least one human or demihuman follower.

Special Benefits: Minor access to Protection sphere. Casts bonus spells within the boundaries of his domain. Can heal plants in his domain suffering from natural causes.

Special Hindrances: Must appoint a caretaker is he needs o leave his domain for a time. If he stays outside the domain long enough, he loses the beneifts of the kit until he returns.


Justifier:

Requirements:

Must be human, LG, 14 Str and Dex.

NWP:
Bonus: Survival in both his chosen terrain and one additional terrain type.
Recommended: Alertness, blind-fighting, bowyer/fletcher, camouflage, endurance, falconry, hunting, mountaineering, navigation, land-based riding, rope use, running set snares, swimming, weaponsmithing.

Species enemy: Reaction penalty reduced to -2.

Special Benefits: Gets weapon specialization. +5% bonus to hide in natural surroundings. Can study enemies for 1 turn to gain automatic surprise. Unarmed combat bonuses. Can coordinate attacks with an animal follower.

Special Hindrances: Only 1 NWP slot at first level. Slower spell access.

Stalker:

Requirements: Must be human, 14 Int.

Weapon proficiencies: limited to concealable weapons.

NWP:
Bonus: Alertness, camouflage.
Recommended: Blind-fighting, etiquette, modern language, persuasion, signaling, trail marking, trail signs.

Species enemy: Can replace enemy with a thieves' or assassins' guild.

Followers: Only takes 1 follower at a time, and does not take human, demihuman or intelligent followers. Prefers small followers to avoid attracting attention.

Special Benefits: Full stealth bonuses in the outdoors and urban settings. Interrogation abilities.

Special Hindrances: Not liked by criminals and distrusted by the law.