Adamant Entertainment PDF Products

[jerichothebard]

Hey, can I interrupt this soap opera to make a suggestion?

I'd like to see all print and pdf publishers simply get rid of the pointless art borders.

I'm not sure where, when or why this design feature became a default inclusion in every rpg book, but it's WAY out of hand. I've seen books with borders and folios more than a inch deep. It's nuts! It sucks up space, serves no practical purpose, offers little or no artistic value, and in some cases even detracts from the artistic value.

Likewise with the patterned and colored backgrounds. It usually clutters up the text clarity, and, again, offers little value, particularly in b&w -- to say nothing of the pdf printing issues that were being discussed here.

As a consumer, if I glance at your product and see these features, it screams to me that you're hoping your graphics will compensate for how bad your material is.

Give me creative written content accompanied by quality illustrations that serve to further my understanding and visualization of the material. That's all I need, not a bunch of repetitive, shoddy, space-hogging frameworks.

By the way, if you're a publisher who's even thinking about providing "graphics-lite" versions, or counseling your customers on how to remove the graphics, consider it a sign from God that your graphics are contributing nothing to your publication. Get rid of them.

Thanks.

Carl

Well Said! It seems to me that some producers - and I here point NO fingers - seem to forget that I am buying the product for one purpose - the content. If I want artsy borders, I can do them myself. I'm buying your rules because I don't want to make them up myself, and probably wouldn't be that good at it.

 

[eyebeams]

Bwuh?

I will, right now, show you how to convert all Adamant products into a totally customizable, art free form:

1) Open file in Acrobat.

2) Click on File.

3) Click on "Save as Text."

Result: Textfile. You can import it to any word processor and do what you want with it. Hell, in OpenOffice and Wordperfect you can even turn it back into a .pdf.

You can also use the text selection tool to take chunks of text and do a bunch more besides, all in Reader. Use the snapshot tool to take whatever graphical or layout chunks you need (Tools->Basic). You can also turn off large graphics by going to Edit->Preferences.

All of these are trivial steps, folks (and they work in Reader). In my view, if any process that takes under 10 mouse clicks strikes you as inconvenient, I have a hard time having any sympathy.

 

[eyebeams]

Well Said! It seems to me that some producers - and I here point NO fingers - seem to forget that I am buying the product for one purpose - the content. If I want artsy borders, I can do them myself. I'm buying your rules because I don't want to make them up myself, and probably wouldn't be that good at it.

This explains why .txt is such a successful format for commercial game sales.

 

[jerichothebard]

All of these are trivial steps, folks (and they work in Reader). In my view, if any process that takes under 10 mouse clicks strikes you as inconvenient, I have a great deal of time having any sympathy.

It isn't about how many mouse clicks it takes. It's about it taking any at all. With a few notable exceptions (i.e. SRD, etc.), these are convenience products. Therefore, they should be convenient! Easy to use, inexpensive to buy and print, quick to install into your game. If it takes me longer to format "A Dozen April Fools Jokes" to print than it would to just make them up myself, then the product hasn't served its purpose, has it?

(Note: I'm not really picking on our "enamoured with the number 12" friend, who's products I quite like - note my sig)

This explains why .txt is such a successful format for commercial game sales.

You'll notice I didn't say anything about a nice formatting and layout. Things like headers, subheaders, styles, nice 2- or 3-column layout - all these things make the content easier to use. As a visual and web designer, I will certainly agree with that. Heck, I'll scream the importance of that from the top of my studio building, if it'll help. (But it probably won't, since I don't think there are any PDF publishers working in the Mission Bay area of San Francisco - if there are, let me know and I'll buy you a cup of coffee and we'll talk design!)

But artsy, full-color, oversized borders, or heavily-patterned backgrounds that detract from the usefulness of the content? Bad Design. That's what we're railing against.

The publishers will note, that doesn't stop me from buying their products - if the content's good. Because the content's the point. But, if you want to make it better, here's a way.


And I think this particular point needs to be reiterated:

By the way, if you're a publisher who's even thinking about providing "graphics-lite" versions, or counseling your customers on how to remove the graphics, consider it a sign from God that your graphics are contributing nothing to your publication. Get rid of them.

This is a really good point - if your design is so heavy that you feel the need to produce a design-free version, then maybe you just need to rethink your design in the first place.






All this being said, I would also like to say that I really like PDFs and have bought quite a few. I'm a supporter of the whole media, and have tried to speak with my dollars as much as my mouth. Or keyboard, in this case.

 

[eyebeams]

It isn't about how many mouse clicks it takes. It's about it taking any at all. With a few notable exceptions (i.e. SRD, etc.), these are convenience products. Therefore, they should be convenient! Easy to use, inexpensive to buy and print, quick to install into your game. If it takes me longer to format "A Dozen April Fools Jokes" to print than it would to just make them up myself, then the product hasn't served its purpose, has it?

(Note: I'm not really picking on our "enamoured with the number 12" friend, who's products I quite like - note my sig)

Everything I mentioned is trivial. You can turn off large graphics in Reader whenever you want. Adamant .pdfs have no restrictions on copy/paste.

You'll notice I didn't say anything about a nice formatting and layout. Things like headers, subheaders, styles, nice 2- or 3-column layout - all these things make the content easier to use. As a visual and web designer, I will certainly agree with that. Heck, I'll scream the importance of that from the top of my studio building, if it'll help. (But it probably won't, since I don't think there are any PDF publishers working in the Mission Bay area of San Francisco - if there are, let me know and I'll buy you a cup of coffee and we'll talk design!)

But artsy, full-color, oversized borders, or heavily-patterned backgrounds that detract from the usefulness of the content? Bad Design. That's what we're railing against.

If the tools are there to create any document desired, then it strikes me as a thin argument at best. If you want a plain, 2 column, easily printable document, you can make one in under a minute. If someone is incapable of doing so, then they're extremely unlikely to be part of the computer-literate segment that buys .pdfs.

The publishers will note, that doesn't stop me from buying their products - if the content's good. Because the content's the point. But, if you want to make it better, here's a way.

The fact of the matter is that text and images together engage the reader more than just text almost all of the time. Once you get past 10 pages, it's desireable to break up the text. Everyone will, of course, post to say how they're not like that, but given that this is the same hobby that forced SJG to change the cover of GURPS4, Forgive me for believing that this is not wholly representative.

 

[GlassJaw]

This explains why .txt is such a successful format for commercial game sales.

It is? For who? Where can I buy .txt material? I certainly haven't seen any.

I think it's a pretty awful format actually. A text file is not very easy on the eyes to read and has extremely limited layout options.

I like the pdf format but I'm with CarlZog here. When I purchase a pdf, it's usually because I want a cheaper alternative to buying a print version and that usually entails printing it out on my own. I want something that's easy to read and navigate, has a reasonable file size, is nicely laid out and organized, won't kill my printer, and looks good in simple black & white. I don't want a 100mb file full of color borders that costs $15+. I'll just spend a little more and buy the book at that point.

I think too many developers are using printed material to layout their pdf's. They are completely different animals and should be treated as such. The expecations I have when I purchase a pdf are completely different than that of a book.

 

[jerichothebard]

Everything I mentioned is trivial. You can turn off large graphics in Reader whenever you want. Adamant .pdfs have no restrictions on copy/paste.

If the tools are there to create any document desired, then it strikes me as a thin argument at best. If you want a plain, 2 column, easily printable document, you can make one in under a minute. If someone is incapable of doing so, then they're extremely unlikely to be part of the computer-literate segment that buys .pdfs.

But my point is that they shouldn't have to.

Salient points:

• Some of the major selling points of pdfs are low cost and convenience
• time is money
• time is required to turn off borders and/or cut and paste into a new document and/or mess around with Reader settings
• turning off borders and/or cutting and pasting into a new document and/or messing around with Reader settings is inconvenient
• printer ink is also money
• printer ink is required to print out the content of the pdfs
• using the content usually requires printing it out at some point
• more printer ink is required to print excess borders/background/foo-foo stuff that isn't directly related to the content.

Why would a producer / writer want to cost me more money and inconvenience me when their product is, in some part, sold on the premise that it's inexpensive and convenient? It's contradictory!


In short, I'm not buying a pdf so that I can do an art project with it - even a quick art project. I'm buying a pdf so that I can use the content in my game I'm running in 30 minutes and I'm late already and I'm broke.

The fact of the matter is that text and images together engage the reader more than just text almost all of the time. Once you get past 10 pages, it's desireable to break up the text.

Breaking up the text is one thing. Extraneous and intricate borders and background art is quite another.

Breaking up text can be done quite effectively with only type treatments, by a decent graphic artist. Particularly on short documents, like many pdfs these days.

If further text break-up is required, then good illustrations can fill that bill, provided they relate to the content at hand (particularly monster illustrations, but I digress).

Why, then, the big, full color borders?

I ask this question, actually, because I'm interested to hear from some of the production artists in this field. Anyone care to step up?

jtb

 

[Threedub]

Thanks for the information. I tried the options but it really isn't what I want.

Bwuh?

I will, right now, show you how to convert all Adamant products into a totally customizable, art free form:

1) Open file in Acrobat.

2) Click on File.

3) Click on "Save as Text."

Result: Textfile. You can import it to any word processor and do what you want with it. Hell, in OpenOffice and Wordperfect you can even turn it back into a .pdf.

This did give me a text file. It was basically unformatted, looked terrible, and was not easy to read, so I didn't print it.

You can also use the text selection tool to take chunks of text and do a bunch more besides, all in Reader. Use the snapshot tool to take whatever graphical or layout chunks you need (Tools->Basic). You can also turn off large graphics by going to Edit->Preferences.

Using the Edit->Preferences I turned off the large graphics. It gave me big grey blocks instead of graphics in Hot Pursuit. I didn't think it would help my print cartridge to print a big grey block instead of graphics but I tried anyway (on one page). It actually printed the graphics, so turning off the images must just be onscreen (maybe to reduce load times on slower computers?). Anyway, that didn't get me closer to my goal. It also didn't turn off the border shading.

All of these are trivial steps, folks (and they work in Reader). In my view, if any process that takes under 10 mouse clicks strikes you as inconvenient, I have a hard time having any sympathy.

I think we all need sympathy, as we are human beings, but certainly not over PDF printing. Though it won't help me on the Adamant products, the information may come in handy for something in the future. Thanks again.

 

[GMSkarka]

There have always been, and always will be folks who prefer the low-art/no-art approach to RPG layout, and those who feel otherwise.

With all due respect to folks on both sides of the issue: you're never going to convince the other side. It all gets back to that emotional investment/sense of entitlement thing that I mentioned earlier. People like what they like, and are unlikely to be swayed by any argument, no matter how reasonable.

Sales seem to support the current approach, so that's what I'll stick with for now.