Adamantite Bypassing DR?

[Wolf72]

OH YEAH!!!???

No. It means that you've made up your own rule. Adamantine has an enhancement bonus that is good enough to sunder another magical weapon, but it is not good enough to bypass SR, nor is it good enough to automatically qualify for enhancement unless it is made into a +1 weapon first.

well just so you all know I'm gonna make my own house rule too! ... and it says that adamantine is just another (albeit really powerful) Special material ... so don't go thinkin' ya can sunder, or bypass DR

AARRRROOOOOO!!!!!!

oh, um ... yeah I guess I'm just gonna stick with what I like

 

[kreynolds]

Re: OH YEAH!!!???

oh, um ... yeah I guess I'm just gonna stick with what I like

Good. You should stick with what works best for ya'. For me, it's really easy. Nobody has any adamantine weapons in my games because they think it's too damn expensive for such a small return, so the problem never came up.

 

[Kraedin]

No. It means that you've made up your own rule. Adamantine has an enhancement bonus that is good enough to sunder another magical weapon, but it is not good enough to bypass DR, nor is it good enough to automatically qualify for enhancement unless it is made into a +1 weapon first.

What is the difference between the enhancement bonus required to sunder, the enhancement bonus required to beat DR, and the enhancement bonus required to have a special abilty? Lets take a look.

DMG, pg. 184 An attacker cannot damage a magic weapon with an enhancement bonus unless his own weapon has at least as high an enhancement bonus as the weapon or shield struck.

PHB, pg. 136 Magic Weapons and Shields: The attacker cannot damage a magic weapon or shield that has an enhancement bonus unless his own weapon has at least as high an enhancement bonus as the weapon or shield struck.

If an adamantine weapon can sunder a magical one, then you acknowledge that it has an enhancement bonus.

DMG, pg 74 Usually, a certain type of weapon -- usually a magic weapon -- can overcome this reduction... For example, a werewolf's damage reduction is 15/silver, meaning the werewolf ignores the first 15 points of damage from every normal atack unless the weapon is made of silver.

Table 3-13: Damage Reduction Rankings
Power Rank Weapon Type
Best +5 enhancement bonus
2nd best +4 enhancement bonus
3rd best +3 enhancement bonus
4th best +2 enhancement bonus
5th best +1 enhancement bonus
Weakest Silver, mithral, or other special material

The text only says that you need an enhancement bonus: the same as sunder. If you can sunder a +2 longsword with an adamantine greatsword, you must also be able to hit a gargoyle.

DMG, pg. 183 A weapon with a special ability must have at least a +1 enhancement bonus.

DMG, pg. 185 A weapon with a specal ability must have at least a +1 enhancement bonus.

DMG, pg. 244 A weapon must have at least a +1 enhancement bonus to have any of the abilities listed on Table 8-15: Weapon Special Abilities.

The same holds true here: you can sunder with an adamantine weapon because it has an enhancement bonus, so you can enchant it with special abilites because it has an enhancement bonus.

If an enhancement bonus is good enough for sunder, it is good enough for DR and enchanting.

 

[kreynolds]

If an adamantine weapon can sunder a magical one, then you acknowledge that it has an enhancement bonus.

No. I acknowledge that it has a natural enhancement bonus. Not the same thing. It's also the only time you'll see that kind of bonus.

The text only says that you need an enhancement bonus: the same as sunder. If you can sunder a +2 longsword with an adamantine greatsword, you must also be able to hit a gargoyle.

Nope. It's a natural enhancement bonus, not a full blown enhancement bonus.

The same holds true here: you can sunder with an adamantine weapon because it has an enhancement bonus, so you can enchant it with special abilites because it has an enhancement bonus.

See previous answer.

If an enhancement bonus is good enough for sunder, it is good enough for DR and enchanting.

See previous answer.

 

[Kraedin]

You say that an adamatine weapon can sunder a magical one because it has a "natural enhancement bonus". It doesn't work that way. You need a "full-blown" enhancement bonus to sunder a magical weapon.

You can't have it so that you can sunder, but can't beat DR. There is no possible interpretation of the rules where that is allowed.

 

[kreynolds]

If it a "natural enhancement" bonus, then you cannot sunder.

No. A natural enhancement bonus meets the requirements for sundering.

You cannot have it both ways. You can either sunder, beat DR, and have special abilities, or you cannot.

In this specific case, and the only case, with adamantine, yes, you can.

You can either sunder, beat DR, and have special abilities, or you cannot.

Adamantine is a different matter all together. You can't apply that logic to it.

Since you edited your message, I'll try and answer it again...

You say that an adamatine weapon can sunder a magical one because it has a "natural enhancement bonus".

Yes.

It doesn't work that way.

In the case of adamantine, yes, it does.

You need a "full-blown" enhancement bonus to sunder a magical weapon.

Not when it comes to adamantine. There's a reason it's listed under the Special Materials section.

You can't have it so that you can sunder, but can't beat DR.

Yes you can, with adamantine.

There is no possible interpretation of the rules where that is allowed.

Yes there is. Adamantine allows it.

 

[Xarlen]

Hello,

We have recently gotten into a heated debate over the feat Sunder.

1st question:
A Pit Fiend has a DR 30/+3. The Pit Fiend gets sunder as a feat but only has natural weapons. Can it use its claws to sunder a magic weapon?

Yes.

2nd question:
Can a fighter with Admantine Bastard sword sunder a magical longsword +1?

Yes (you need a magical bonus to overcome DR, but not for sunder).

Skip Williams
RPG R&D

Apparently, you Can.

 

[Kraedin]

DMG, pg. 184 An attacker cannot damage a magic weapon with an enhancement bonus unless his own weapon has at least as high an enhancement bonus as the weapon or shield struck.

It doesn't say "natural enhancement bonus." It says "enhancement bonus." If it says that you need an enhancement bonus, then you need an enhancement bonus!

 

[kreynolds]

It doesn't say "natural enhancement bonus." It says "enhancement bonus." If it says that you need an enhancement bonus, then you need an enhancement bonus!

Not in the case of adamantine.

 

[Kraedin]

Could you at least quote something, or give a reason? I mean, it seems like if it says that it requires an enhancement bonus, and there's nothing in the adamantine text that supercedes it, then it probably requires an enhancement bonus.