Adamantite Bypassing DR?

[ConcreteBuddha]

FANGO---

adamantine gives something an "enhancement bonus".

You are smoking crack.


What type of weapon bypasses DR?

"A magic weapon...can sometimes damage the creature normally, as noted below.

For example, the werewolf (damage reduction 15/silver) takes normal damage from weapons with +1 or better magical bonuses, but not from nonmagical weapons made from material other than silver, and not from keen weapons or weapons with other special magical properties." -- pg. 10, MM

Do adamantine weapons bypass DR?

No. As they are not magical.
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I would prefer if adamantine weapons bypassed DR. In fact I have houseruled this already. But by the rules, adamantine weapons do not bypass DR.

 

[Xarlen]

"Special material" has nothing to do with adamantine. "Special material" is meant to refer to silver, wood, mithral, and other nonmagical materials which do not grant enhancement bonuses but which can bypass certain types of DR.

Page 242, DMG. Adamantite is the First under 'Special Materials' listings. Next comes Mithral, then Darkwood. So, why Wouldn't Adamantite be considered a special material? It's Right Beside the others.

On page 74, table 3-1, the weakest is listed as Silver, Mithral, or other special materia. Now, the way I interpretate that is, a special material is listed for the weakness, and it goes up from there. Like, 15/silver. However, I could see it being interpreted as the weakest DR being weak from Silver is Also weak against mithral and other special materials. But, my refute of this would be: if they were going to mean it like that, it would be 15/special material.

Also, the argument about "magical attacks bypassing DR" is irrelevant, because magical attacks are simply one of the exceptions to DR. There is nothing that says that DR much be bypassed by magical attacks, and indeed it even says in the description of DR that there are many cases in which it gets bypassed by completely mundane attacks (it uses the phrase "mundane fire" as an example of something that bypasses DR). So no, things do not have to be "magical" to bypass DR.

Page 74 states that magic and energy attacks bypass DR (Like Fire). Fire's an energy attack, even if it isn't magical. This gives the impression that creatures with DR still die by drowning/smothering/etc, Silver or +1's or magical items aren't the only way they die. But, notice that drowning or suffication doesn't do damage.

 

[Jeremy]

I agree with you FANGO. I believe the often quoted sequence is being focused on too much and the other passages on DR are being ignored.

I believe the point of that particular statement was to state that cold iron weapons do not bypass werewolves DR.

The general rule is still DR is trumped by enhancement bonus and adamantine does grant an enhancement bonus. Flavor text "special materials" and "magic weapons" is being read into too much.

Again, any reference for the quote your remember Wolf?

 

[FANGO]

I don't see "wood" or "silver" listed under special materials, so does that mean they're not special materials? I didn't think so. The reason it is not "15/special material" is that not all special materials are equal, and werewolf DR is bypassed specifically by silver and not wood, and also by anything more powerful than silver (such as adamantine, seeing as it gives an enhancement bonus).

And concretebuddha, does nonmagical fire get by damage reduction? does poison? According to your analysis, that nonmagical things do not bypass DR (and I am not putting words in your mouth here, you said that adamantine doesn't bypass DR because it's "not magical", suggesting that you think that only magical things can bypass DR), they do not. However, they do bypass DR, as specifically stated in the section about DR.

Let me reiterate....DR is bypassed by an enhancement bonus, and adamantine gives an enhancement bonus, so therefore it bypasses DR. The advantage of looking at it this way is that it requires no interpretation whatsoever, whereas all other viewpoints that have been given so far in this thread require some interpretation at one point or another.

 

[Xarlen]

I don't see "wood" or "silver" listed under special materials, so does that mean they're not special materials? I didn't think so. The reason it is not "15/special material" is that not all special materials are equal, and werewolf DR is bypassed specifically by silver and not wood, and also by anything more powerful than silver (such as adamantine, seeing as it gives an enhancement bonus).

Look on page 74, table 3-1. Silver, Mithral, Or Other Special Material.

And concretebuddha, does nonmagical fire get by damage reduction? does poison? According to your analysis, that nonmagical things do not bypass DR (and I am not putting words in your mouth here, you said that adamantine doesn't bypass DR because it's "not magical", suggesting that you think that only magical things can bypass DR), they do not. However, they do bypass DR, as specifically stated in the section about DR.

Actually, unless the weapon deals damage, poison does not effect them, because the hit isn't recieved. And, look at ConcreteBuddha's quote: weapons with +1 or better magical bonuses, but not from nonmagical weapons made from material other than silver. Weapons. Nonmagical weapons. Adamantite is not silver, it is another material. It's as simple as that.

As to the continual use of Fire doing damage, Fire is Energy damage. Just like Fatigue from the weather. It's not a *weapon*. You can set them on fire, but it's an element, not a weapon.

 

[FANGO]

I find it interesting that nobody has yet made a comment about the fact that DR is bypassed by enhancement bonus, and adamantine has an enhancement bonus, and instead they've decided to argue with irrelevant side points rather than actually disputing the blatantly obvious fact that adamantine bypasses DR because it gives an enhancement bonus, and DR is bypassed by an enhancement bonus.

Should I say it again? Cause people don't seem to be catching on.


(also, your point about the poison and the weapon dealing damage or not is completely irrelevant to the original comment, which was that poison, being nonmagical and not an energy attack, can still do damage to something that has DR, just as adamantine does because it has an enhancement bonus, and DR is bypassed by something with an enhancement bonus...and if fatigue is energy damage, can I use "Energy Immunity (fatigue)"? cause that would be really cool)


edit:
I should also mention that the "special materials" in the item creation section is different than the "special materials" in the DR description section, as the item creation special materials deals with "substances [which] have innate special properties", which silver is not one of, and the DR section mentions special materials simply meaning any material other than steel, and indeed does not reference the item creation special materials section at all, so they are two completely different things.

 

[Xarlen]

Okay. How is the fact that Werewolves are not harmed by Nonmagical weapons that made from silver Irrelavent? It spells it out: They Are Not Harmed By NonMagical, Non Silver weapons.

If I take a steel bar, a mithral bar, a wooden bar, and a silver bar, and I sit and hit a werewolf with them, what's going to go through? The silver. Because it says 15/silver. If I did the same to a vampire, it wouldn't work because it requires a Magical Weapon. Ergo the /+1.

 

[FANGO]

How is it irrelevant? Because it has nothing to do with adamantine weapons (which have enhancement bonuses) overcoming DR (which is overcome by enhancement bonuses). The reason I used the example of the werewolf in the first place on the other thread was to show an example of a creature who has a nonmagical weapon that can overcome some DR, since an argument of yours early on in the discussion was that DR was only overcome by magical weapons. Now, however, the werewolf has no relevance to the discussion at hand, which is that adamantine overcomes DR, because it has an enhancement bonus, and DR is overcome by an enhancement bonus.

 

[AGGEMAM]

FANGO, an adamantine weapon/armor does not have an enhancement bonus, it has a natural enhancement bonus which is not the same.

 

[Xarlen]

I'm just going to retract my statement (to see the responses), and simply say that I've contacted the Sage. Answer on the way, either way.

See Hong below; I toss my support behind him.

To further it, look at Armor, and Natural armor. Two different things, because of the _natural_ heading.