Adamantite Bypassing DR?

[Wolf72]

just to point out some things ...

a +2 silver longsword is no different from a +2 longsword ... unless the creatures DR
entry says that it needs to be enchanted silver ...

Magic first, then special material (uh ... starting to sound like order of operations in math!
)

 

[dcollins]

I'd still contend a natural enhancement bonus is still an enhancement bonus, just as natural armor is a form of armor.

But it's not. "Armor" and natural armor" differ in the most important ways:
(a) They are different in that they stack (DMG p. 177), and:
(b) They're different in that "brilliant energy" weapons ignore "armor", but not "natural armor" (DMG p. 186).

 

[FANGO]

Enhancement bonuses and natural enhancement bonuses are the same. We've been over this before. The word "natural" is simply there to show that the enhancement bonus, which is all that matters to the rules, is not from a magical source, btu a natural one. If you look on the table in the DMG with the bonus types, you will not see "natural enhancement" as a type of bonus, and neither will you see that in the glossary. Also, if you look at the description of the adamantine battleaxe, it is clear that the natural enhancement bonus is an enhancement bonus that just happens to be natural, rather than being a "natural enhancement bonus."

And that is correct that a +2 silver longsword is no different than a regular +2 longsword in terms of overcoming damage reduction. And a +2 adamantine longsword is also no different than a regular +2 longsword in terms of overcoming damage reduction. If you read the table, you will see that it clearly shows enhancement bonus first, special materials second.

 

[Earthstone]

Fango... ...That's right, a +2 Adamantine long sword is identical to a +2 silver long sword for purposes of overcoming DR... ...BUT you're making an assumption here that you shouldn't be... ...a long sword made of adamantine has a +2 enhancement bonus but it is not a "+2 adamantine long sword" it is simply an "adamantine long sword"... ...as you said, "a +2 silver longsword is no different than a regular +2 longsword in terms of overcoming damage reduction. And a +2 adamantine longsword is also no different than a regular +2 longsword in terms of overcoming damage reduction"... according to YOUR logic, an "adamantine long sword" would, then, NOT be the same as a +2 long sword or a +2 silver long sword...


BTW, you shouldn't assume things, it makes an ass out of you and me... ...and i don't know how YOU feel about being pollymorphed into a beast of burden but i don't find the idea all too exciting...

 

[ConcreteBuddha]

No, because I don't own an MM

Well then, I'll be happy to quote the whole thing for you so you don't think I'm misrepresenting the MM:

Damage Reduction (Su): The creature ignores damage from most weapons and natural attacks. Wounds heal immediately, or the weapon bounces off harmlessly (in either case, the opponent knows the attack was ineffective). The creature takes normal damage from energy attacks (even nonmagical ones), spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities. A magic weapon or a creature with its own damage reduction can sometimes damage the creature normally, as noted below.

The entry indicates the amount of damage ignored (usually 5 to 25 points) and the type of weapon that negates the ability. For example, the werewolf's entry reads "damage reduction 15/silver": Each time a foe hits a werewolf with a weapon, the damage dealt by the attack is reduced by 15 points (to a minimum of 0). However, a silver weapon deals full damage.

Any weapon more powerful than the type listed in the note also negates the ability. (For details, see Table 3-13: Damage Reduction Rankings, page 74 in the Dungeon Master's Guide. )

For example, the werewolf (damage reduction 15/silver) takes normal damage from weapons with +1 or better magical bonuses, but not from nonmagical weapons made from material other than silver, and not from keen weapons or weapons with other magical properties.

For purposes of harming other creatures with damage reduction, a creature's natural weapons count as the type that ignore its own innate damage reduction. However, damage reduction from spells, such as stoneskin, does not confer this ability. The amount of damage reduction is irrelevant. For example, a Large air elemental (damage reduction 10/+1) deals full damage to a werewolf, as if the elemental's attack were with a +1 weapon.

---pg. 9-10, MM

 

[FANGO]

So you're basing your argument off of a half-relevant example that's only mentioned in passing? If you check the table which the MM DR entry refers to, you'll notice that it says "enhancement bonus" above "special material". Since adamantine has an "enhancement bonus", then it's able to bypass DR. This has still not been refuted.

And Earthstone, I was about to explain all sorts of things about how your post was stupid, but I think that I'll just leave it at that: if you're going to come into this argument, bring something useful instead of being an idiot, because you, I, and everyone else here knows exactly what I meant by "+2 adamantine longsword" (an adamantine longsword with a +2 enhancement bonus...the same way any other item with an enhancement bonus is referred to...because adamantine, if you haven't noticed, has an enhancement bonus, and therefore bypasses DR, because DR is bypassed by something with an enhancement bonus).

 

[JLXC]

2kreynolds:
Yes, but wouldn`t it be to easy to use such obvious reasons for allowing Admantite Weapons to bypass DR.

And the reast, please, ignore JLXC`s comment, this is once again a much to easy way.

Mustrum "who sometimeswonder what discussions come up" Ridcully

Ignore my comments? Why because I'm freaking right you moron? Bite me loser. Ignore your own stupidity you meant to say?

Natural does not MEAN anything in the contect of Enhancement? Don't like it? Tough.

(I should have been more clear myself heh... my sarcasm doesn't flow well in the morning... I should have said "Cream Puff" instead of Moron, then it would have been more funny... my bad)

 

[kreynolds]

Ignore my comments? Why because I'm freaking right you moron? Bite me loser. Ignore your own stupidity you meant to say?

Hey dude? Ever feel like you have your head up your arse? Take a whiff. Mustrum was making a joke, all in good fun and humor, and in fact, I'm pretty sure he was actually in agreement with our opinions (even though I decided otherwise).

Breathe. Take a step back. Chill out. It's all good.

 

[ConcreteBuddha]

Since adamantine has an "enhancement bonus", then it's able to bypass DR. This has still not been refuted.

Sure I'll refute it. Considering that adamantine is nonmagical. And DR is only affected by magical enhancement bonuses.

I don't care whether or not adamantine has an enhancement bonus or a natural enhancement bonus or what semantics you would like to argue. That point is irrelevant. (And I also agree with you. The adamantine battleaxe example is a damning point in this issue.)

However, adamantine is nonmagical. Therefore, it doesn't affect DR. Period.

And as for the MM example being half-relevant: If it were an exception, you would have a point. Since it is an example of how DR works, you are standing on sand.

 

[FANGO]

Um, I stand on sand all the time, it's called the beach

DR is bypassed by enhancement bonuses, regardless of whether they are magical or not. Your "example" is mentioned in passing, whereas my table is meant to be referred to in all cases dealing with the bypassing of DR (if you'll notice, it does mention in the MM to refer to that table, whereas your "nonmagical" is not only just mentioned briefly and in passing, but also it is not mentioned in the DMG, which the MM refers to for adjudicating DR, or the SRD, which is meant to be the flavor-stripped, official version of the rules, with only rulesworthy sections in it and nothing else to muddle the opinions of the misinformed).

What you have posted is in no way a refutation, it is simply a piece of flavor text that is not at all supported anywhere else in any book, and is the only thing that would suggest that DR can't be bypassed by nonmagical weapons, and that's only if you read it in a certain way. (and an interesting side note...it never actually refers to adamantine as being nonmagical in the special materials section...although I suppose it does in the descriptions of the axe and dagger in the magic weapons section...but then, it is the "magic weapons" section...so, actually, there would even be a rationale, even if you were right about the whole nonmagical things not bypassing DR (which you aren't), for letting adamantine be considered magical at least for the purpose of bypassing DR).