log in or register to remove this ad

 

Adamant's Tome of Secrets: How has it aged?

Psion

Adventurer
Adamant's Tome of Secrets has been out for a year now. Some of you may have been using it. Some of you may have even looked at similar classes in the new APG (Knight/Cavalier, frex). Some of you might have even played some of this material alongside each other.

Any impressions on how Adamant's book looks now.

Honestly, I was turned off by the sparseness of the pages when I saw the print version at GenCon last year, and only recently picked up the PDF myself.
 

log in or register to remove this ad


Honestly I did not like the book and in good faith could not recommend anyone get it. Most of the classes were meh, the races were unbalanced to put it kindly, it looked like a bunch of 3.5 PDF's someone hand bunched together with very little thought to how some rules changes effected items in the book.


The swashbuckler was not bad that I recall, but as I said I would not recommend.
 

Psion

Adventurer
Yeah... most of the book seemed to me more like interesting experiements than compelling inclusions in a game.

I even wonder, with the Swashbuckler variant rogue, if the Swashbuckler class will even see much more play.
 

Kvantum

First Post
The Swashbuckler Rogue variant isn't nearly enough of a variation, it's just a few little changes. The Tome of Secrets Swashbuckler, though, that's probably still the best version out there. The rest of the book is basically worthless now, though.
 

jaerdaph

#BlackLivesMatter
The chase rules (converted to Pathfinder from the original Hot Pursuit) in Tome of Secrets are still the best I have ever seen.
 

pawsplay

First Post
The Swashbuckler Rogue variant isn't nearly enough of a variation, it's just a few little changes.

Stacking it with the Scout variant helps a little.

The Tome of Secrets Swashbuckler, though, that's probably still the best version out there. The rest of the book is basically worthless now, though.

I'm curious to know more about it. I purposefully avoided the ToS in the beginning, despite it being one of the earliest support materials from a 3pp, partially because I didn't want to have to worry about plagiarization issues while I worked on Fistful of Denarii.

It doesn't seem to have had the staying power of, say, the Genius stuff, Denarii, some of the reworked Races of whatever, and so forth. I saw complaints early on about fluency in the Pathfinder design lingo, and GMS did not seem satisfied with how the book was received. I would like to check it out sometime, though.
 

Kvantum

First Post
Well, both books have a Knight class, but beyond that, Tome of Secrets is much more focused on magic-using classes than Fistful of Denarii. Warlock, Spellblade, Shaman, those are the kinds of classes you'll find in Tome of Secrets. I mean, other than a few of the Scholar's abilities, you pretty much ignored magic all together for Fistful, it seems like.

(And when are we going to get the next Tripod Machine release, anyway? Isn't it going to be a races book?)
 

Dark Mistress

First Post
I reviewed it when it first came out. I don't think the classes have held up real well. Other 3pp have honestly come out with better versions of most of the classes. The races where never great. Though I still think many of the optional rules are still pretty good to cherry pick from.
 

Beholder Bob

First Post
The tome of blah

I purchased this when it first came out and quickly found it unusable. The classes are not too balanced, the races blah or imbalanced. I thought the chase rules too cumbersome, and in general a pot luck of 3.5 stuff with a slight update. Adamant did not support their product except to provide a starting funds, age, and weight. The most usable item in the book was the swashbuckler, and at this point I maintain the pdf due to a packrat mentality more then a actually application for the material.

Given the above, I have to admit being disgusted with the material shortly after purchase. I'll admit to perhaps failing to appreciate something from the package. Is there anything in that book that someone feels is worth re-reading the TOS? I'd love to find some use for the darn thing!

:rant:
 

Azgulor

Adventurer
Tome of Secrets: I find it to be a mixed bag, but a fairly useful one.

Races - I wasn't particularly wowed by these. However, I'm an ardent opponent of the "Mos Eisely Effect", so I didn't buy the book for these anyway. Since none saw use at my table, I can't really comment on the mechanical merits of the races.

Classes - Some solid contributors but hasn't aged well against the APG, Fist Full of Denari, & the Genius Guides. It's a blend of "Migrate my 3.5 character" and fresh attempts. Best ideas/classes: Artificer, Knight, Swashbuckler, Warlord. The spell-casting classes seemed ok mechanically, but didn't fire me up the way the APG's Oracle & Witch did. If I had to fault the classes, it's for playing it safe. Fistful of Denari is the martial-class supplement to beat and I give higher marks to the Genius Guides for originality. I haven't done a side-by-side comparison of the ToS-Knight vs. APG-Cavalier or FFOD-Knight or the Warlord vs the GG: WarMaster. I do give ToS points for Swashbuckler & Artificer. I think Swashbuckler is as viable as any APG Archetype option & I haven't seen the Artificer concept done anywhere else.

Drawbacks - I like 'em.

Occupations - I like 'em. If Traits are in play they're perhaps less useful. However, NPCs don't get traits but NPCs could have Occupations.

The Game Master Section is a mix of earlier PF-updated PDFs combined with some new material. Shock-and-Awe (morale rules) & Hot Pursuit (chase rules) are my favorites here. S&A isn't for everyone but Hot Pursuit is a must-have in my book. The rest is a decent selection of GM pot-luck. Also, given that Paizo has decided that firearms will not see signficant use in the setting, for those who desire it ToS has a pretty good firearms system. Finally, the random adventure generator works surprisingly well, esp. when your players go in an unexpected direction.


My conclusion: Tome of Secrets is not a "theme" book like Fist Full of Denari or the APG. If that's what you're expecting, you'll likely be disappointed. ToS is a grab bag of goodies for players & GMs. It's not what I would consider essential to a Pathfinder GM like some other 3rd-party products (like Fist Full of Denari, Genius Guide classes, Rite Publishing's Secrets of Martial Mastery)- but I do consider it a strong "Nice-to-Have".
 



Thanael

First Post
I'm (more or less) aware of those, having seen the Fighter variants on Fighter - Pathfinder_OGC. I havn't seen the APG Swashbuckler rogue variant yet though.

But the swashbuckler is a rogue variant, while the 3.5 swashbuckler was a fighter class.
 

Azgulor

Adventurer
True, but the Fighter has Mobile Fighter, Weapon Master, & Free-hand Fighter archetypes which also provide a swashbuckler vibe.

Plus, by using archetypes like Fighter (mobile fighter) & multi-class with Rogue (Swashbuckler), you get a pretty decent build towards Duelist without the core class baggage that made it a less optimal choice for emulating the theme.
 


Presents for Goblins

Advertisement2

Advertisement4

Top