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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 9385695" data-attributes="member: 87792">For a cleric a spell is equipment. Changing spells is like going to your wardrobe in the morning - and (with a couple of very minor feat and race exceptions) every cleric of the same subclass has access to exactly the same wardrobe. There is no difference in the character building choices.Meanwhile a spell for a warlock, sorcerer, or bard is a long term choice and two Draconic sorcerers might not have a single spell in common. Your spells are a big part of who you areYou might not but I do. For characters where it is a major choice anyway.What decision points above level three?I consider a choice every level to be stingy. If you're only going to level up half a dozen times after level three in about a year of play that's about one choice every two months.That's on you.OK. Reality check on the sorcerer.At level 5 as a sorcerer you have two third level slots. Unless you're twinning Haste the warlock can match that cold. And a pre-Tasha's sorcerer only knows one more spell than a warlock, but needs to spread it out over three spell levels.You also get three second level slots. What are these worth in warlock terms? We've got a simple benchmark here. Scorching Ray does 3x2d6 fire damage (average 21 single target damage). Meanwhile Eldritch Blast plus Agonizing Blast with Cha 18 at level 5 does 2*(5.5+4) = 19 Force damage. Or almost the same with a better damage type. You call Eldritch Blast a cantrip but with Agonizing Blast at level 5 it has the effectiveness of a second level spell. (And that's without a "cheat hex" cast before you take a short rest because it lasts eight hours).So you have four first and three second level spell slots trying to match what the warlock is doing at will with a spammable at will spells that's effectively second level and whatever else the warlock invocations let them spam. Oh, and light armour and extra hit points.The warlock falls behind at level seven because there is a huge jump from second to third level spells. But a much smaller one to 4th so the combined third and fourth slots work together more than second and third.And at fifth level that's six third level spells vs nine leveled spells of which only two are third level and almost half are first level. Plus better non-leveled spell options for the warlock.A warlock that consistently gets two useful short rests in a day is a monster.Sure ... if you think that a first level slot is worth as much as a fifth level slot. If you don't then that's six fifth level slots vs two fifth, three fourth, and three thirds.Tenth is the absolute nadir of warlocks. Now let's look at eleventh with two short rests. Everyone gets a sixth level slot. Then the warlock gets nine fifth level slots while other casters get eight spell slots of level three and above. And that backed by a monster Eldritch Blast and Invocations.The warlock's actual weakness here is resilience; with no first level slots they're missing Shield, Absorb Elements, and Silvery Barbs. And all warlock defensive invocations are bad (something that I hope 5.24 fixes)Oh noes! Don't make me cast Eldritch Blast! Especially not when other casters are burning their second level slots and I can do this all day.Ugh! The problem here isn't the power of the warlock class. It's that your player doesn't get how to play them.If the warlock is level 5+ then they should basically never be spending a slot to cast either of those spells.If they have Cure Wounds they are a Celestial, which means they also have Healing Light. And Healing Light is basically Healing Word; it doesn't do much healing but it gives enough healing to bring the recipient back into the fight while allowing the caster to keep beating on whatever took their friend down. So you might not have normal first level slots but you have level+1 uses of what is basically healing word. So when should you cast Cure Wounds? Simple. Before a short rest. When you would otherwise waste the slot. If he needs a slot stored for combat save it for Revivify.And Hex? Again you cast it before a short rest. It lasts 8 hours. Then you have both slots available.So there we have it. Your warlock player is making blatantly bad choices and you don't understand the class well enough to have realised it.And is a problem with the warlock the number of trap options? Yes. Absolutely (and cleaning out the chaff invocations will only help). Does playing a warlock well require a different approach to other classes? Again yes. They are not orthodox full casters. More play styles and approaches is a good thing.Who said that warlocks were full casters? Because they are their own thing.If you don't care about quality this is true.Warlocks are their own thing. If you look at just the spells and ignore the invocations they are not great. But invocations are full of both utility to handle their low level spell slot equivalents and junk.</blockquote>

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