Adding HD

[dingle]

Interesting , thanks. Note that it doesn't seem to increase the save DCs of Su abilities (or at least it didn't when I boosted a Succubus to 12 HD).

Thanks Allenw,
You are right the DC's don't change they have been typed in manually as part of the SU ability description.
As far as I know the DC's don't actually go up if you add more hit die, but are linked to a stat bonus, so the Succubus in your example would only increase the save DC's if her charisma was raised. It is something I may however add into the new version of the Monster Generator I am designing. Thanks for pointing it out.

 

[allenw]

Thanks Allenw,
You are right the DC's don't change they have been typed in manually as part of the SU ability description.
As far as I know the DC's don't actually go up if you add more hit die, but are linked to a stat bonus, so the Succubus in your example would only increase the save DC's if her charisma was raised. It is something I may however add into the new version of the Monster Generator I am designing. Thanks for pointing it out.

Supernatural (and sometimes Extraordinary) save DCs going up 1-for-2 with HD is a poorly-documented rule, but I think it's official. I welcome correction or confirmation from posters with more monster-advancement experience.

The SRD (and Monster Manual) section on "Special Abilities - Supernatural Abilities" (Special Abilities :: d20srd.org) says that "The saving throw (if any) against a supernatural ability is: 10 + ½ the creature’s HD + the creature’s ability modifier (usually Charisma)." Likewise, the section on Energy Drain says the Fortitude save is "DC 10 + ½ draining creature’s racial HD + draining creature’s Cha modifier".

The SRD/Monster Manual section on Improving Monsters does not directly mention this as a side-effect of increasing Hit Dice. However, it does suggest that one
"Compare the monster’s improved attack bonus, saving throw bonuses, and any DCs of its special abilities from the HD increase to typical characters of the appropriate level and adjust the CR accordingly," and the example in the MM (missing from the SRD) of increasing an Otyugh's HD seems to increase the DC for it's "Filth Fever" for both the increased HD and increased Con (double-checking, I see that it explicitly says "thanks to the otyugh’s increased Hit Dice and Constitution, the save DC against its disease is now 20".

 

[Vegepygmy]

Supernatural (and sometimes Extraordinary) save DCs going up 1-for-2 with HD is a poorly-documented rule, but I think it's official. I welcome correction or confirmation from posters with more monster-advancement experience.

That is correct, and it is the default rule for all extraordinary and supernatural abilties that allow a saving throw.

 

[dingle]

Thanks Allenw and Vegapygmy. Thinking about it I may be able to include it in this version. I could flag each SA with its ability modifyer and a flag to say its an Supernatural ability. I'll see if I can get it sorted this week.

 

[allenw]

You're welcome. Note that spell-like ability DCs don't follow this pattern, but are instead based on the spell level and stat modifier (usually Charisma), just like real spells. Their Caster Level arguably might go up with increased HD, though.

 

[Runestar]

Interesting , thanks. Note that it doesn't seem to increase the save DCs of Su abilities (or at least it didn't when I boosted a Succubus to 12 HD).

I don't recall a succubus having any SU abilities, just a lot of SLAs...

 

[dingle]

Looks as if I will have to split the spell like abilites down to wis or chr based and level to do this properlly.
For the supernatural/Con based abilities what would happen if the creature took a class level. E.g. the Succubus took a couple of levels as bard. Would these levels effect her level drain ability? The text says the 1/2 creatures hit die, does this mean racial hit dice? I suspect it does but I reckon it's better to throw the question for open discussion before I do the change.

 

[dingle]

I don't recall a succubus having any SU abilities, just a lot of SLAs...

Shes got a level draining kiss (DC21) and a lot of SLAs. I've just been checking her out.

 

[freyar]

Looks as if I will have to split the spell like abilites down to wis or chr based and level to do this properlly.
For the supernatural/Con based abilities what would happen if the creature took a class level. E.g. the Succubus took a couple of levels as bard. Would these levels effect her level drain ability? The text says the 1/2 creatures hit die, does this mean racial hit dice? I suspect it does but I reckon it's better to throw the question for open discussion before I do the change.

SLAs are by default Cha-based for DCs.

HD means total HD for Su abilities, unless you're told otherwise somewhere.

 

[dingle]

SLAs are by default Cha-based for DCs.

I thought so to, until I came across the Dryad that uses Wis-based DC's I don't know if there are any others..

I've now set up some defaults for the level based SA. Now will have to go through all the monsters and split there SLAs up into the appropriate levels I've done the "Demon, Succubus" and it looks OK.
You can have a play D&D 3.5 « Dingles Games There are probably some SAs I've set up incorrectly.