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Message: <blockquote data-quote="DracoSuave" data-source="post: 4898030" data-attributes="member: 71571">Here's the rub.  We are not talking about daggermaster.  Daggermaster is not relevant to the conversation.  Whether it says 'can' or not is irrelevant to the conversation.  And then Precision explicitly states (with no ifs, butts or maybes) that scoring a critical hit does not mean an automatic hit with 20s.What Holy Ardor does NOT do is state that critical hits from it actually automaticly hit.  In the -absense- of an explicit exception, apply the original rule.This is the -exact- same argument form you present:'Fireball says you deal 3d6+Intellegence modifier damage.  No, you can't reduce that damage with resistance, or immunity!  You do that much damage, no more, and no less.  Outside rules cannot modify it, because the power does not explicitly allow for modification from outside rules.  It is specific, and therefore trumps general.  It doesn't say you -can- deal that much damage!  It says, flat out, that creature takes that damage.  No, it doesn't matter that the rules for how damage works tells you you can do it.  Specific beats general.'That argument form is thusly defeated, proof by contradiction.Precision's language doesn't -care- if the ability is 'optional' about the critical hits.  It says, without ambiguity, that features that allow non-20 critical hits do not automatically hit.  Which means that the onus to prove that it doesn't goes back to the original ability to show that it -explicitly- gets to break the rule on how to govern 'scoring a critical hit.'All you've established is that Holy Ardor scores a critical hit.  No one is arguing that, that IS unambiguous.  Now, you need to establish that it gets to break the rules on how abilities that allow you to score a critical hit work. This what you haven't done, just like the above Fireball argument hasn't actually established how Fireball breaks the rules on how damage work.And it can't do so, because it -doesn't- break those rules.</blockquote>

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