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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Artoomis" data-source="post: 4907445" data-attributes="member: 111">Well, I don't think that helps, in my opinion, because I can re-state it another way:A = roll a 20B = an attack score high enough to hit the defenseC = roll a 19D = roll doublesE = Double onesH = you hitM = Max damage hit, plus extra damageX = Critical Hit Z = missCutting right through it all, Holy Ardent creates a new situation where:If D but not E, Then X, where H is irrelevant.Or, I could re-state it as:A = roll a 20B = an attack score high enough to hit the defenseC = roll a number other than 20 that can still score a critical hitD = roll doubles, but not double onesH = you hitM = Max damage hit, plus extra damageX = Critical Hit Then we get:The general rule is If B then H and if not B than not HFor critical hits, before Holy ArdentIf (A or C) and B then XFor critical hits after Holy Ardent new situationIf ((A or C) and B) or D then X But we could spend forever on this and get nowhere.  Our focus should be on whether rolling doubles is the same as rolling numbers other than 20.The trick of properly applying logic (or, for that matter, statistics) is to first get solid agreement on the assuptions.  In other words, a good argument starts wqiht a good foundation.The foundation here is the answer to the question of whether rolling doubles is the same as rolling numbers other than 20.</blockquote>