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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Artoomis" data-source="post: 4907498" data-attributes="member: 111">But you won't really get there, I think, without answering the question of whether double = number other than 20 or not.,For we know, as re-stated for the rules compendium, exactly what a critical hit is, without regard to Holy Ardor:"Natural 20: If you roll a 20 on the die when making an attack roll, you score a critical hit if your total attack roll is high enough to hit your target’s defense. If your attack roll is too low to score a critical hit, you still hit automatically.Precision: Some class features and powers allow you to score a critical hit when you roll numbers other than 20 (only a natural 20 is an automatic hit).Maximum Damage: Rather than roll damage, determine the maximum damage you can roll with your attack. This is your critical damage. (Attacks that don’t deal damage still don’t deal damage on a critical hit.)Extra Damage: Magic weapons and implements, as well as high crit weapons, can increase the damage you deal when you score a critical hit. If this extra damage is a die roll, it’s not automatically maximum damage; you add the result of the roll."The first two paragraphs are relevant as they determine if an attack is a critical hit or not, the second two only deal with damage, which is out of scope for this argument.Thus, pre-Holy Ardor, the logic is simple:Hit = attack roll meets or exceed defense scorePotentialCrit = roll on a die is high enough to be a critical hit (20, or, per Precision, a lower number)Critical = Score a Critical Hit (get max damage, etc.)If PotentialCrit and Hit then Critical.The rule post-Holy Ardor is more difficult because one must first decide if Holy Ardor creates a new situation or not.If so, then:Hit = attack roll meets or exceed defense scorePotentialCrit = roll on a die is high enough to be a critical hit (20, or, per Precision, a lower number)Critical = Score a Critical Hit (get max damage, etc.)Doubles = Holy Ardor power used and doubles rolled, (except for double ones)If (PotentialCrit and Hit) OR Doubles, then Critical.If not, thenHit = attack roll meets or exceed defense scorePotentialCrit = roll on a die is high enough to be a critical hit (20, or, per Precision, a lower number) OR Holy Ardor power used and doubles rolled, (except for double ones)Critical = Score a Critical Hit (get max damage, etc.)If PotentialCrit and Hit then Critical.And so, once again, the key point becomes whether or not Holy Ardor doubles is simply another potential critical hit or creates a new category where one scores a critical hit even on a low attack roll (by rolling doubles).</blockquote>

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