Reply to thread

Message

<blockquote data-quote="N8Ball" data-source="post: 4909108" data-attributes="member: 63757">And I have shown the term &quot;critical hit&quot; to be encompased&nbsp; by &quot;hit&quot; through examples and direct quotes from the book.&nbsp; (and it makes sense)As I explained, &quot;automatic hit&quot; is a sometimes-coincident result with critical hit, and NEVER a criteria for it.&nbsp; Looking for that wording is would be the basis for the faulty causation argument mentioned.&nbsp; But we agree that is not there, we know that there are crits that are not automatic hits and automatic hits that are not crits.&nbsp; Obviously &quot;Automatic hit&quot; has never been a requirement for a crit just as it is not even a requirement for a hit.&nbsp; The two may be coincident, but that is simple correlation due to similar requirements.&nbsp; They are not at all dependent on each other.But the criteria for achieving a crit are modified by feats and features.&nbsp; The end result of satisfying those new or modified criteria is also a critical hit.If a power or feature said you simply hit, then you would hit regardless of the normal requirements and restrictions on hitting.&nbsp; And what's more, you'd hit even if you didn't have the word &quot;automatic&quot; in front of it, because although the &quot;Hit:&quot; section has requirements on hitting (just like critting), it also defines what a hit is (just like critting) and so a &quot;hit&quot; could be applied no matter what you rolled.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="N8Ball, post: 4909108, member: 63757"] And I have shown the term "critical hit" to be encompased by "hit" through examples and direct quotes from the book. (and it makes sense) As I explained, "automatic hit" is a sometimes-coincident [B]result[/B] with critical hit, and NEVER a criteria for it. Looking for that wording is would be the basis for the faulty causation argument mentioned. But we agree that is not there, we know that there are crits that are not automatic hits and automatic hits that are not crits. Obviously "Automatic hit" has never been a requirement for a crit just as it is not even a requirement for a hit. The two may be coincident, but that is simple correlation due to similar requirements. They are not at all dependent on each other. But the criteria for achieving a crit [B]are modified [/B]by feats and features. The end result of satisfying those new or modified criteria is also a critical hit. If a power or feature said you simply hit, then you would hit regardless of the normal requirements and restrictions on hitting. And what's more, you'd hit even if you didn't have the word "automatic" in front of it, because although the "Hit:" section has requirements on hitting (just like critting), it also defines what a hit is (just like critting) and so a "hit" could be applied no matter what you rolled. [/QUOTE]

Verification