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Message: <blockquote data-quote="N8Ball" data-source="post: 4909763" data-attributes="member: 63757">Samir's claim is supported by my arguments and examples in previous posts. And crits do deal "Maximum Damage" as defined by the section of the same name under crits.  But as you point out, "Maximum damage" can still be 0.I do appreciate your logical walk through though.  It really helps to see where our thought processes match and diverge.I was hanging in there with you right up till here:I need to address the two parts of this out of order.  Simple stuff first.We agree that sometimes a crit's "maximum damage" is 0, like with Beacon of Hope because it doesn't do any damage in the first place, but that's still "Maximum Damage" as defined by that section, and the only reason to reference that section is if you got a crit.  So with beacon, you didn't deal damage (you never do with that power), but you did get a crit.On a more careful reading of precision, I think you will agree that it's saying that "some class features and powers" (that affect crit requirements) do not change the "automatic hit" rules.  Precision doesn't talk about normal hit requirements, it talks about a rule that allows hits under certain narrow criteria (20s).But you're right, Precision does draw a line between crit requirements (and their modification) and automatic hit rules. And satisfying one does not necessarily satisfy the other.This doesn't make sense to me either.  So you're saying here that because come crits don't assign damage (a result that we get to by reading "maximum damage" after getting a crit.)  That we should apply the normal hit and miss rules?  I don't track that logic at all.There are other things I don't follow or agree with, but I think they are the fruit of the same disagreement-tree, so I'll stop with these two objections, I think they're foundational since they speak to when you have achieved a crit and what happens when you do.</blockquote>

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