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<blockquote data-quote="CovertOps" data-source="post: 4918290" data-attributes="member: 65152">Darn work...I just can't reply quick enough to keep up.I'm curious about something among those of us saying Critical Hit &lt;&gt; Hit (Flipguarder, Keyters, myself, Draco, and any others I may have left out).&nbsp; Do any of you believe that RAI is the same as the position we are defending?I'll start.&nbsp; I'm not really sure anymore what the intent was.&nbsp; In general I think the feature is underpowered and should be granted the slight increase in crit range and be given the hit even on double 2's, but would want this clearly stated in the body of the power so it becomes an exception like any other power with exceptions.Hit rules (p276 PHB)...&nbsp; Critical Hit rules (p278 PHB)...To me &quot;score a critical hit&quot; means you met the requirements listed on p278 for getting a critical.&nbsp; It does not mean you met the requirements of &quot;Hit&quot; on p276.&nbsp; It does not say that in any way in the body of the power nor does it give you an exception from the &quot;Hit&quot; rules only an exception to the &quot;Critical Hit&quot; rules.&nbsp; &quot;Critical Hit&quot; is indented under the &quot;Hit&quot; rules and clearly subordinate.&nbsp; The &quot;Hit&quot; rules have a higher priority in cases where the &quot;Critical Hit&quot; rules might say otherwise.1. The &quot;Hit&quot; rules tell you that if you hit you might have a critical.&nbsp; See the rules on Criticals.2. Holy Ardor grants you a &quot;Critical Hit&quot;.3. If you have &quot;Hit&quot; then Holy Ardor overrides the requirements of criticals on p278 and you can now go straight to max damage.Their position is that &quot;Hit&quot; is a requirement of &quot;Critical Hit&quot; and therefore granting one gives the other.1. I am granted a &quot;Critical Hit&quot; by Holy Ardor.2. By definition a &quot;Critical Hit&quot; must be a &quot;Hit&quot;3. So now a subordinate rule (&quot;Critical Hit&quot;) just told the &quot;Hit&quot; rules that they don't apply to the &quot;Critical Hit&quot; rules.&nbsp; This is deeply flawed.It means that while you need to &quot;Hit&quot; in order to get a &quot;Critical Hit&quot; all you need to do is be granted a &quot;Critical Hit&quot; and suddenly the &quot;Hit&quot; rules become subordinate to the &quot;Critical Hit&quot; rules.&nbsp; So this means that &quot;Critical Hit&quot; rules can override the &quot;Hit&quot; rules?&nbsp; This is circular logic.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="CovertOps, post: 4918290, member: 65152"] Darn work...I just can't reply quick enough to keep up. I'm curious about something among those of us saying Critical Hit <> Hit (Flipguarder, Keyters, myself, Draco, and any others I may have left out). Do any of you believe that RAI is the same as the position we are defending? I'll start. I'm not really sure anymore what the intent was. In general I think the feature is underpowered and should be granted the slight increase in crit range and be given the hit even on double 2's, but would want this clearly stated in the body of the power so it becomes an exception like any other power with exceptions. Hit rules (p276 PHB) ... Critical Hit rules (p278 PHB) ... To me "score a critical hit" means you met the requirements listed on p278 for getting a critical. It does not mean you met the requirements of "Hit" on p276. It does not say that in any way in the body of the power nor does it give you an exception from the "Hit" rules only an exception to the "Critical Hit" rules. "Critical Hit" is indented under the "Hit" rules and clearly subordinate. The "Hit" rules have a higher priority in cases where the "Critical Hit" rules might say otherwise. 1. The "Hit" rules tell you that if you hit you might have a critical. See the rules on Criticals. 2. Holy Ardor grants you a "Critical Hit". 3. If you have "Hit" then Holy Ardor overrides the requirements of criticals on p278 and you can now go straight to max damage. Their position is that "Hit" is a requirement of "Critical Hit" and therefore granting one gives the other. 1. I am granted a "Critical Hit" by Holy Ardor. 2. By definition a "Critical Hit" must be a "Hit" 3. So now a subordinate rule ("Critical Hit") just told the "Hit" rules that they don't apply to the "Critical Hit" rules. This is deeply flawed. It means that while you need to "Hit" in order to get a "Critical Hit" all you need to do is be granted a "Critical Hit" and suddenly the "Hit" rules become subordinate to the "Critical Hit" rules. So this means that "Critical Hit" rules can override the "Hit" rules? This is circular logic. [/QUOTE]

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