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<blockquote data-quote="CovertOps" data-source="post: 4919514" data-attributes="member: 65152">I have to say there are two really gaping holes in their position.First is that because you are using OoE (an ability that has nothing to do with Holy Ardor) and rolling two dice to &quot;attack&quot; that if you have this other ability and you roll doubles it is no longer an attack.&nbsp; Did you roll dice in an attempt to hit something?&nbsp; It's an attack.&nbsp; Does it have rules that tell you how to resolve those multiple dice rolls into a single outcome? Yes.&nbsp; Are those rules overridden by anything? No.The other gaping hole is the assumption that somehow &quot;Critical Hit&quot; grants you a &quot;Hit&quot; when the rules on &quot;Critical Hit&quot; are subservient to the &quot;Hit&quot; rules because &quot;Hit&quot; is a requirement of &quot;Critical Hit&quot;.Hit clearly says that you have to beat the defense score in order to &quot;...deal damage...&quot;.Critical Hit says you get to deal maximum damage, but says nothing about &quot;Hit&quot;.This to me says you are eligible to deal maximum damage, except that you missed (and therefore deal NO damage) in a situation such as double 2's.If you really want to prove your side is right then show me where in the rules on &quot;Critical Hit&quot; that you either &quot;Hit&quot; (allowed to '...deal damage...') or &quot;Miss&quot; ('...usually no effect...').And just as a side note (IMO): Precision doesn't matter.&nbsp; They need to prove how they got from &quot;Critical Hit&quot; to &quot;Hit&quot; using the rules on criticals.&nbsp; Because I'm sure that we can all agree that there are no powers out there with results like this:Power XCritical Hit: Do 50 damage.Hit: Do 25 damage.Miss: Do nothing.&nbsp; (usually just left off)&quot;Critical Hit&quot; only modifies the damage applied to the &quot;Hit&quot; entry of a power so I want them to show what specific rule says they got a &quot;Hit&quot;.EDIT:Or as I have stated all along show where in Holy Ardor you are granted a &quot;Hit&quot; such that it overrides the rules on &quot;Hit&quot;.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="CovertOps, post: 4919514, member: 65152"] I have to say there are two really gaping holes in their position. First is that because you are using OoE (an ability that has nothing to do with Holy Ardor) and rolling two dice to "attack" that if you have this other ability and you roll doubles it is no longer an attack. Did you roll dice in an attempt to hit something? It's an attack. Does it have rules that tell you how to resolve those multiple dice rolls into a single outcome? Yes. Are those rules overridden by anything? No. The other gaping hole is the assumption that somehow "Critical Hit" grants you a "Hit" when the rules on "Critical Hit" are subservient to the "Hit" rules because "Hit" is a requirement of "Critical Hit". Hit clearly says that you have to beat the defense score in order to "...deal damage...". Critical Hit says you get to deal maximum damage, but says nothing about "Hit". This to me says you are eligible to deal maximum damage, except that you missed (and therefore deal NO damage) in a situation such as double 2's. If you really want to prove your side is right then show me where in the rules on "Critical Hit" that you either "Hit" (allowed to '...deal damage...') or "Miss" ('...usually no effect...'). And just as a side note (IMO): Precision doesn't matter. They need to prove how they got from "Critical Hit" to "Hit" using the rules on criticals. Because I'm sure that we can all agree that there are no powers out there with results like this: Power X Critical Hit: Do 50 damage. Hit: Do 25 damage. Miss: Do nothing. (usually just left off) "Critical Hit" only modifies the damage applied to the "Hit" entry of a power so I want them to show what specific rule says they got a "Hit". EDIT: Or as I have stated all along show where in Holy Ardor you are granted a "Hit" such that it overrides the rules on "Hit". [/QUOTE]

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