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Message: <blockquote data-quote="CovertOps" data-source="post: 4919832" data-attributes="member: 65152">Let me start with some of the base assumptions (and I know you're trying to understand my position so I won't try to defend each point):1. Every attack has 2 components to the result.1a. Did I hit? ("Hit" "Miss") p2761b. Did I critical? p278This gives you a matrix outcome of (sorry I can't make this into a 2x2 grid or 3x3 to include headers):1a. Hit1b. Crit    1c. maximum damage2a. Hit2b. no-crit2c. normal damage3a. Miss3b. Crit3c. no damage4a. Miss4b. no-crit4c. no damageAs in my previous post the "declarative" version of "you score a critical hit" (read this as you do max damage as long as you hit) is granting you 1b and 3b.  You still have to qualify 1a or 3a since you can qualify for a "Critical Hit" and not beat the targets defenses (this works with dagger master as well as Holy Ardor).The "conditional" version "if you score a critical hit" is depending on 1c (the outcome) in that you did max damage to the target.This is just a rough idea of where I stand and I'll really have to think about it some more before I decide if this is really supported by the rules.  I think what this comes down to (starting with Holy Ardor first) is that you've chosen to skip the step where you determine if the power hit or not FIRST so we do wind up with the outrageous situation of having a critical that misses, but I don't really see that as any different from getting an 18 on the die with Dagger Master and still missing.</blockquote>

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