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Message: <blockquote data-quote="DracoSuave" data-source="post: 4920257" data-attributes="member: 71571">Actually that's an interesting statement.  Nothing says 'if you don't hit, you don't crit.'  I mean, except for how natural 20 works.  And that rule is called 'automatic hit'.  And it says that if you roll a 20 but don't hit, you don't actually crit, but just normally hit.And then Precision goes and tells you that only 20s benefit from automatic hits -at all-.I mean no, it doesn't say it -verbatim-.  But it does imply this -heavily.-But regardless of that.... the precident exists where you are told by a power or feature to do something and another rule tells you that it is not possible.  Immobilized tells you non-forced movement is not possible.  Dazed tells you immediate actions are not possible.  Charge tells you that further actions are not possible--barring one exception.It's not difficult to see that 'Even if X says it happens, X might not happen' is definately a logically sound statement in fourth edition.Which means the counter argument 'It says you crit, so you can't not crit' is utter horse hockey.  Clearly, it is quite possible.What happens if you 'definately crit' and Armor of Bahamut kicks in?Well, it -says- you score a crit, so obviously, you -must- crit.  Outside rules can't say you can't?  B.S.  You don't crit in this instance, Armor of Bahamut says you do not.And, as you said, if you accept the logic 'If you critical hit, you must hit' then you -must- accept the logic 'If you do not hit, you do not critical hit.'It's a basic law of logic:  p -> q <=> ~q -> ~p.So it cuts both ways.  If you do not hit, you cannot crit.  'Oh, but see, it works in reverse too, ya?  If you crit, you hit!  Aha!  We got you!'But as I already said, an ability -saying- you crit is not the same thing as actually critting, for the same reason that -This power says it deals 4 damage- is not the same thing as -The spirit companion takes 4 damage-. Look at that for a moment.  You have a situation where the power says it does something 'deal 4 damage' but you have the spirit companion specificly say it can be targeted by that power, but then says 'But it only deals damage if it's above 5+half your level.'Sound familiar?  You have an instance (X), and a rule that explicitly says that instance X can work, but then limits what X -can- in fact do.So you can have something -say- something but have that something -not happen.-  Saying something happens is -not- an exception to rules that say -how- that something may not happen.  To do so, you need further rules, that tell you that this is a different case, how it is a different case, and what to do because it is a different case.Therefore 'The ability says it scores a crit' is not a guarantee of a critical hit.  You must apply -all- applicable rules normally in the absense of an exception.  You cannot assume it is a critical hit before you do so, for the -exact reason- you cannot assume the above power deals damage to a spirit companion... there -might- be a reason why it does not.So, to sum up.Yes, the ability says you crit.Saying event X happens is not enough to guarantee X happens when contravening rules apply.If you succesfully crit, you must successfully hit, and so:If you do not hit, you cannot crit.Precision removes any sense of automatic hit from Holy Ardor, and without any language indicating Holy Ardor is -truly- differing from this, the regular rules apply.The regular rules say you do not hit.Therefore, you do not crit.So... does Call Spirit Companion work as I say above?  Or does the absense of 'can' in damage text negate how CSC deals with damage to a Spirit Companion.The problem with your logic, is that when applied -exactly as you describe- to other instances, you break the rules apart.That's a sign the logic is -wrong-.  In debates, it's called a 'Disproof by Counterexample.'  It renders your argument form meaningless.  It is a -proof- things do not work as you believe.</blockquote>

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