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Message: <blockquote data-quote="WalterKovacs" data-source="post: 4921177" data-attributes="member: 63763">Precision says too things: (a) There are other ways to score criticals outside of 20. (b) 20 is the only part that allows automatic hits. An automatic hit MEANS that when you roll a 20 and do NOT beat the defense it's a hit. It has absolutely nothing to do with critical hits, only that a 20 would normally be a critical hit IF it hit. The Natural 20 rules explain how natural 20's work. If you roll a 20 and you hit -> You score a critical hit. If you roll a 20 and you miss -> You score an automatic hit. Precision does not say anything about scoring a critical hit but not hitting (which is different than an automatic hit). One problem is that people are confusing automatic hit (which has a specific definition in the game rules under Natural 20) with the 'score a critical hit means that you hit'. EDIT: What Precision says is basically this: A Daggermaster rolls an 18, but misses (presumably they are debuffed and blind or something). It is not an automatic (non-critical) hit. Precision says that some powers will modify the Natural 20 rules to allow you to score critical hit on more than just a natural 20. Precision clarifies that just because you can score a critical hit on an 18-20, does not mean that you can get an automatic hit (a non-critical hit when you should have missed per attack roll vs. defense check). Effects that increase crit range say you 'can' score a critical hit. Powers that cause a critical hit to occur, do not use that wording [Such as the cleric paragon path power that turns a normal hit into a critical hit ... there is also the channel divinity power that was later errata'd. Unfortunately, this is the first case where it says you DO "score a critical hit", which wasn't triggered off a normal hit anyway. The basic argument is this: The first paragraph, called Natural 20, basically says: "If you roll [20] and it is a hit, you score a critical hit." In the case of feats/paragon path abilities/etc that improve the crit range you change [20] to [19 or 20] or [18-20], etc ... with all the same rules applying. However, in this particular case, the ability says that you DO score a critical hit.  The normal situation is: If X then Y.The normal modifiers says: You may Y ... and end up changing X.For Ardent Champion it instead says: If Z then Y.</blockquote>

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