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Message: <blockquote data-quote="CovertOps" data-source="post: 4924544" data-attributes="member: 65152">It's really simple Artoomis, but you don't even bother addressing my issue at all.  My point is that if you compare your attack roll and that attack roll says you miss then you never get to invoke Holy Ardor or any other critical power because you never get to the "Apply Damage" phase of attack resolution and therefore you are (were?) never granted the critical hit in the first place.If you want to try and defend something try defending my points from my last post.  Holy Ardor is not an "attack roll".  You have said it and I'll agree to it.  On that assumption you therefore CANNOT invoke/use Holy Ardor during either step 3 (make attack roll) or step 4 (compare attack roll to ...) because both of those steps need an attack roll in order to resolve.  Your assertion is that Holy Ardor grants you a whole new way to get a critical hit and a Hit because it is NOT an attack roll.  My point is because it isn't an attack roll you are not allowed to invoke it's use until step 5 (apply damage).  What you are trying to do is no different from my examples above (repeated here):What if I tried to perform an OA on my turn. Does that work?What if I tried to perform a move action when it isn't my turn. Does that work?What if I tried to use Weapon Focus during "Compare your attack roll..." Does that work?All of these are examples of trying to use an ability that doesn't apply to the situation given.  You are trying to use Holy Ardor in a situation to which it does not apply.EDIT:  On the other hand if Holy Ardor IS an attack roll then it doesn't create the new path to a critical you claim it does and the normal hit rules still apply.</blockquote>

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