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<blockquote data-quote="CovertOps" data-source="post: 4925790" data-attributes="member: 65152">And this is my point.&nbsp; If you don't roll damage you cannot invoke Holy Ardor.Yes.&nbsp; Holy Ardor is not an example of this kind of power however.Again you have not argued against my point.&nbsp; You either need a power that does damage on &quot;Miss&quot; (override to the normal hit/miss rules) or you need to &quot;score a hit and deal damage&quot; in order to deal damage.&nbsp; If you do not meet this requirement, then Holy Ardor does not apply (nor does Weapon Focus).No.&nbsp; It overrides &quot;Apply Damage&quot; which requires you to &quot;Hit&quot;.The resolution rules have a single outcome (hit or miss).&nbsp; Holy Ardor does not provide a direct override of this outcome.&nbsp; If you have to invoke a different rule (attack resolution) then you no longer have an override.&nbsp; Specific beats general is that A overrides B.&nbsp; Not A gives you B and because B is C therefore A overrides C.&nbsp; That is not the structure of an override.&nbsp; Especially when C is the very thing that determines if you get the thing you are after.&nbsp; This becomes C overrides C which is plain silly.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="CovertOps, post: 4925790, member: 65152"] And this is my point. If you don't roll damage you cannot invoke Holy Ardor. Yes. Holy Ardor is not an example of this kind of power however. Again you have not argued against my point. You either need a power that does damage on "Miss" (override to the normal hit/miss rules) or you need to "score a hit and deal damage" in order to deal damage. If you do not meet this requirement, then Holy Ardor does not apply (nor does Weapon Focus). No. It overrides "Apply Damage" which requires you to "Hit". The resolution rules have a single outcome (hit or miss). Holy Ardor does not provide a direct override of this outcome. If you have to invoke a different rule (attack resolution) then you no longer have an override. Specific beats general is that A overrides B. Not A gives you B and because B is C therefore A overrides C. That is not the structure of an override. Especially when C is the very thing that determines if you get the thing you are after. This becomes C overrides C which is plain silly. [/QUOTE]

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