Adventure Game vs. Basic Set

[mmadsen]

One think I think should be in the PHB but would fit even better in a Basic Set would be examples of different kinds of Fighters (and different of the other classes too, but they're not very flexible).

I'd love to see one pre-gen Fighter who's a Knight in Shining Armor, one who's a Hawk-Eyed Archer, one who's a Swashbuckling Conquistador, etc.

 

[Valavien]

Maybe they didn't bypassed character gen so new players could get straight into the action and concentrate more on roleplaying and playing rather than, min maxing

 

[mmadsen]

Maybe they didn't bypassed character gen so new players could get straight into the action and concentrate more on roleplaying and playing rather than, min maxing

I know you've got a smiley there, but I'd still like to point out that you can have both pre-generated characters (with cool character sheets) and character-generation rules.

 

[Valavien]

Yes you can but it's idea was to get people new to the game straight into playing and the experience. Not giving Character gen rules is WOTC's way of doing this. The emphasis on playing rather than the setup. As I said before, they wan't you to experience what normally goes on in a session while gradually introducing the rules. Then the players go "this game is cool and roleplaying is great' and purchase the PHB with an understanding of how it works. Now that they know how to play, when these lucky people purchase the book they don't have to worry so much about all of the other rules like we do, they can concentrate on reading through the character gen with an understanding of what they want. This also encourages the purchase of the PHB because it promises of more crunchy bits to come! Wow you can make your own character if I buy the PHB, I must have it! Watering the character gen rules down in the Adventure game could cause confusion when it came to moving onto normal D&D. That was the idea of 3e, that it would be simple in it's own right. Going from the Basic set to AD&D was a big step and many things were different and confusing. ack now I am confused!! Do you sort of know what I am talking about, anyone??

 

[mmadsen]

Yes you can but it's idea was to get people new to the game straight into playing and the experience. Not giving Character gen rules is WOTC's way of doing this. The emphasis on playing rather than the setup.

Right. And my point was that you can still do that while providing an appendix on making your own characters (limited to the four most common races and classes, with only the feats and spells available to low-level characters). Only players who'd already enjoyed the pre-gen characters would move on to making their own characters.

Then they'd buy the PHB for all the extra crunchy bits.

This also encourages the purchase of the PHB because it promises of more crunchy bits to come! Wow you can make your own character if I buy the PHB, I must have it!

I agree with you basic point; I just think the jump from Adventure Game to PHB is gigantic. I'd like to see the novice player learn character-generation with a smaller palette of options before tackling the whole smorgasbord provided by the PHB.

 

[Valavien]

Yeah you are right, it is a big jump. So providing the stereotypical versions. So if like the fighter you could roll stats. Choose a small selection of skills appropriate to figthter and then a few accessible feats - like weapon focus, improved initiative. Do you think skills and feats are offered just for combat and dungeons or a few more than that? Also, would it be good to expand to not just be a dungeon crawl, or save them for the PHB so people can just get used to the basics?

 

[WSmith]

I agree the purpose of the AG is to "get them playing right away." It does that well. But, like mmadsen, I think either an appendix, or a downloadable file for chargen would help bridge the gap between the AG and the PHB.

Also, the version of the 3e Lite I am putting together is MORE like the full version PHB than the AG. Initiative is rolled. You can cast on the defensive, or move from an adjacent enemy space, make AoOs, (a much simpler definition of such.) I took the PHB, and the AG rules and character sheets, compared what was in the two to find what was missing, and imported the few things from the PHB. So, it is more like the PHB, with a smaller pallette of choices such as skills and feats, equipment, and spells. That is the best part, come 5th level, the character is TOTALLY compatable with other Core rules characters. They were limited in their choices, but all the the ones that were available were street legal.

 

[mmadsen]

I think a lot of us forget that D&D is a pretty complicated, hard game to learn how to play. You can't just sit down and get right to it; you have to read a large (but pretty) book before you can start. And, I think, most people won't really grasp the basic "idea" of the game just by reading the PHB or DMG.

Not only are there all the rules to learn -- compare D&D to Scrabble or Pictionary -- but there are lots of slippery concepts to grasp: roleplaying, playing as both referee and adversary (DM), creating adventures, etc.