Adventure Ideas for Fixing a Religious Schism!

[Parlan]

Help my players heal a Religious Schism!!

We’re playing WFRP, but the issue could be ported into any fantasy game.

One of my players is a priestess of the god Sigmar. She enjoys acting in character significantly more than the other players, who are more into combat (not that there’s anything wrong with that). To give her a little time in the spotlight of an otherwise combat heavy session, I had her meet Sigmar while she was unconscious.

[Background: Sigmar’s church is split. The head of it (the Grand Theogonist) was captured by a Chaos army and presumed dead. A New Grand Theogonist was named. Then the Old Grand Theogonist returned. ]

This might have been a mistake.

I’ve played up the religious strife a lot as backdrop to the player’s adventures. As the PCs travel they hear gossip that the OGT is saint, come back from the dead…. others say that he sold his soul to the Ruinous Powers to save his life... the PCs don’t know which is true b/c I don’t. I haven’t decided whether the OGT is legit or did sell his soul, partly b/c speculating is fun for me too!

They hear about violent struggles b/n the backers of the different GTs, they hear how a parlay b/n the NGT and the OGT degenerated into violence, etc. I thought working towards resolving that problem could be a good long term goal of the players.

But this takes me to my problem. When the priestess met Sigmar, he told her to “use the relics of [his] body to heal his fractured church.”


I originally thought that the PCs would find some relic of Sigmar (a lock of hair, fingernails, or something) in the Shrine when they finished clearing it of greenskins, and then would use it to “heal” the church.

I figured they’d use the prestige or something of the relic they found to confer legitimacy on one of the factions and planned on working out the details later. Now it’s later and I still have no idea how to progress.

So I’m putting it to you all: what kind of adventures should they have to help them decide which faction to support? (The other players will want some combat so I can’t go purely political…)

Thoughts? Ideas? Suggestions?

 

[Gilladian]

I'd say if the god is asking them to heal the church that HE knows the "right" faction to support. So maybe they need to ask for more information...

A trip to a known oracle might work - and if the "wrong" faction tries to prevent them from getting there, combats could ensue on the trip. They might pick up clues on the way that make no sense until the oracle reveals something that makes all the pieces fall into place. For example, the PCs are attacked by folks wearing a particular symbol (a dragon, maybe). The symbol doesn't mean anything to them until the oracle says "the dragon devours, the swan unites". The swan, of course, is the known symbol of the other faction.

Otherwise, perhaps the god tells both factions the PCs are coming to make his choice known, and both groups will send emissaries to the party. The PCs may find these emissaries to be friendly, unfriendly, dangerous, open and honest, or dishonest. Take a cue from the way the PCs react to each group and make your decision on which group is good/bad from there.

The second path is a bit less fight-oriented, unless one or both groups attempt to use physical persuasion on the PCs. Can you imagine them trying to kidnap one or more PCs to take them to the OGT and force them to choose him?

Sounds fun!

 

[SiderisAnon]

A trip to a known oracle might work - and if the "wrong" faction tries to prevent them from getting there, combats could ensue on the trip.

I wouldn't limit myself to the "wrong" faction. If you are working from a model where the church can follow the will of its human members and not necessarily of the deity itself, why not have ALL of the factions try to stop the party? After all, there is bound to be someone in each faction who doesn't want them to succeed. Some will be afraid that their faction isn't the "right" one. Some may be convinced that the party is on the "wrong" side. Others may simply like keeping the strife going.

Which brings up other religions. I don't remember Fantasy Warhammer, but aren't there other gods in the setting? What if some members of those churches try to stop the party because a divided church is, after all, weaker competition; right?

 

[Parlan]

I wouldn't limit myself to the "wrong" faction. If you are working from a model where the church can follow the will of its human members and not necessarily of the deity itself, why not have ALL of the factions try to stop the party? After all, there is bound to be someone in each faction who doesn't want them to succeed. Some will be afraid that their faction isn't the "right" one. Some may be convinced that the party is on the "wrong" side. Others may simply like keeping the strife going.

Which brings up other religions. I don't remember Fantasy Warhammer, but aren't there other gods in the setting? What if some members of those churches try to stop the party because a divided church is, after all, weaker competition; right?

That's an interesting thought! I love the idea of the other religions weighing in.

I don't want to decide which party is wrong b/c I want the PCs to decide which one is *right*. Or at least, I want them to realize that there's good (and bad) people in each faction.

What was the Story Hour w/ the Undead Paladin? Where the PCs have to decide whether to support him or not. They went through months of real time w/o knowing whether he was legitimate or not. That's what I'm looking for.

Here's what I'm thinking she'll do:

1. Subtle as a sledgehammer, she'll go to Middenheim to the parlay, introduce herself, and then say, essentially, "I'm on a mission from God. Sigmar told me to pick one of you guys to be the REAL Grand Theo. Now tell me why I should pick you?"

I think she needs to be rebuffed on the first approach: she's not politically connected, they should try to sideline her.

The PCs'd then need to go do some more investigating, interact w/ the players, and then get some insight into what the actual relic is.

They could then come back, and use it to decide which faction to endorse.

 

[SiderisAnon]

I think she needs to be rebuffed on the first approach: she's not politically connected, they should try to sideline her.

If the party has any kind of reputation at all, the religious leaders should also have people scrambling to figure out if she really is on a mission from their god. Just because you think Joan of Arc is crazy doesn't mean you don't check to make sure if she's not also RIGHT.

 

[WayneLigon]

Given how dark the WFRP world is, I'd say go with the traditional means of healing a religious schism: kill as many of the other side as you can until they can't mount a successful movement, then absorb the rest. The 'relic of the body' could mean his swordarm

 

[Parlan]

If the party has any kind of reputation at all, the religious leaders should also have people scrambling to figure out if she really is on a mission from their god. Just because you think Joan of Arc is crazy doesn't mean you don't check to make sure if she's not also RIGHT.

Absolutely! Joan of Arc is a good example actually. She had no political power or religious authority, but she was Chosen by God (at least in the minds of her supporters), and that gave her a legitimacy.

Similarly, this priestess has no political power, b/c she's an adventurer, but she does have the spells of her god that provides a certain legitimacy.

Now she's going to show up in the middle of a big parlay among all the Powers that Be in Sigmar's Church with, for sake of discussion, a relic that lets her see if a person is tainted by chaos/undeath. So this could prove whether or not the Old Grand Theogonist sold his soul.

Neither of the representatives wants this test to go forward. The rep for the OGT is worried that the OGT will fail. The rep for the NGT worries that the OGT will pass.

How would they *plausibly* prevent the priestess from administering the test? Keep in mind she lacks political power but has religious legitimacy.

[I'm thinking that the New and Old Grand Theogonists aren't there personally, just their representatives. B/c having to go through spokespersons is annoying!]

Thoughts?

 

[Parlan]

Given how dark the WFRP world is, I'd say go with the traditional means of healing a religious schism: kill as many of the other side as you can until they can't mount a successful movement, then absorb the rest. The 'relic of the body' could mean his swordarm

This is going on in the background.

I think the PCs are going to have to deal w/ assasination attempts, maybe be sent on an "impossible" quest to prove their legitimacy, etc.

 

[Graf]

Now she's going to show up in the middle of a big parlay among all the Powers that Be in Sigmar's Church with, for sake of discussion, a relic that lets her see if a person is tainted by chaos/undeath. So this could prove whether or not the Old Grand Theogonist sold his soul.

Neither of the representatives wants this test to go forward. The rep for the OGT is worried that the OGT will fail. The rep for the NGT worries that the OGT will pass.

I think you have the gist of it right here. Personally my only concern would be that this pushes you toward a political impasse where nothing happens. It's relatively easy to get fights, but players may enjoy fights against eviler evil (so to speak).

Some off hand suggestions:
In and of itself the warhammer world doesn't have a problem with being able to detect evil... it just has to have an appropriate price. A simple suggestion would be for the cup (or whatever the item is) is to be used by both parties (i.e. the investigating PC and the suspected) if the person is untainted/living then everything's just peachy Otherwise the PC is exposed to madness or death energies. So the device works, in principal, but there is both cost and uncertainty. If you can't tell if the original person is 'really' possessed, then can you tell if the other drinker is?
Naturally you'd only use the cup (or whatever) if you were convinced the person in question wasn't filled-with-evil or if you could handle being exposed to whatever force converted them.

Personally, given a choice between A and B I would always try to find an interesting C. In this case his holiness was brought back from the dead but due to some trick (he hid part of his soul in some nick-nak) he's not completely consumed by evil.
A hypothetical story would be something like....

a) the PCs fight with the anti-Old Grand Theogonist group; the group tries to incapacitate them instead of kill them (hopefully the PCs do the same)
b) they get some sort of significant aid from the pro-Old Grand Theogonist group. Since they're more optimistic they're uch cooler to be around and much nicer people. (this being Warhammer the nice optimistic people are also wrong and dooming their world but that still makes them very agreeable)
c) the PCs meet the Old Grand Theogonist; and fend off an assassination attempt by powerful and vicious agents of chaos. It's a big fight, people die, the Old Grand Theogonist's holy aura is a "big deal" in the fight (i.e. it lets the PCs strike through the monsters armor like it isn't there, or blinds them so that their horrible attacks don't hit the PCs too often).
d) The PCs do the test. This is motivated by a certain amount of any of the following
1) inertia (they're with the Old Grand Theogonist, they've got the doodad, his followers all believe in him, he just saved them from evilness)
2) genuine beleif that he's the real deal
3) he's got lots of magical power, the PCs might as well feel that even if he's not being totally truthful he's better off in their camp (aka the pragmatic approach)
e) the dude seems to pass with flying colors, the PC doesn't remember the test clearly but she seems fine afterward; the PCs get some sort of magical item reward, discussion of a new adventure*; the credits start rolling then when the PCs start out...
f) Suddenly it's an an ambush!! One of the trusted advisors of the Old Grand Theogonist uses some kind of anti-chaos magic on the PC priest of Sigmar and she's totally messed up. And the assassins try to killed the PCs. But the PCs are really tough and manage to escape.
g) they hear rumors that they've been killed by the anti-Old Grand Theogonist faction (the guys who attacked in a). The newly politically energized Old Grand Theogonist starts a purge of the "anti-social elements..." the PC feels really sick and is having terrible disurbing dreams, she can't remember what happened at the test at all now. Right before she wakes up she remembers the Old Grand Theogonist giving a battered notebook to a horrible rat-creature and saying "I can not crush her completely. The soul spark still prevents me. Take the book from the city, take it east, so long as it remains beyond the lands of man our victory is assured".

Obviously I'm y) just riffing z) don't know much about Warhammer.
Some general thoughts... every other letter is a fight, which should be enough to satisfy even the most bloodthirsty group (they'll want rest time anyway since Warhammer is stingy with healing IIRC).
A lot of the roleplaying doesn't have to be very long. The PCs get to make important decisions; but there isn't much politicking really (you can always add a bit in if it looks like they want it). Personally I would handle the dreams and tests with handouts. After the test begins "you wake up a few hours later <gives PC piece of paper explaining what they remember and don't". Same thing with the dream.

All of the fights "matter", in the sense that there are story elements involved. a) may appear a bit egregious at first, but 1) the PCs may be able to get help from the anti-Old Grand Theogonist faction later 2) it will give them a basis to realize that the assassins who are attacking them in f) aren't really the anti-Old Grand Theogonist faction (they don't do something like beg forgiveness before attacking, or are obviously mercenaries, or what have you) 3) fighting with people who are trying to disable or capture you is a bit different than fighting to the death.... it should be a good contrast with the later more vicious fights.

the * in e) is your escape hatch... if the PCs are totally sick of it or really want something else then.... you just start off on the new adventure. Maybe the Old Grand Theogonist is still evil but the PC in question can't remember.

Just riffing. YMMV.

 

[Graf]

Some other general thoughts....

I think that the only way for it to be relitivistically moral (i.e. that both sides have got a point) would be if neither side was Chaos touched (or both sides were). Though I think that would make for a great premise it might frustrate people who want to play warhammer to fight evil.

Once one side is corrupted then the other people are 'bad guys'.

If you don't want the Old Grand Theogonist to be corrupt then another option would be
1) the anti-Old Grand Theogonist faction poisoned and killed him (or did something else fairly final) for some not-good reason (i.e. money, power, improved standing, revenge)
2) he came back, using some sort of "bad" magic. He's not corrupt, but he does have a touch of chaos on him
3) the other faction is still working on taking him out and they've figured out that he used the bad magic to come back.

So the fingernail of evil detection, or whatever, will hum nearby him, but he's not the bad guy. Obviously this completely contradicts the prior suggestion.