D&D General Adventurers in Faerun-The Book of Low and Mid Level Adventures?

[Parmandur]

The why spend time and resources to write 13 new Epic Boons? If the only players playing those levels are homebrewers then don't waste writing those feats. They will just write feats of their own if they don't like the ones in the PHB 24.

For the minority who will play to that Level, and for aspiration. Again, the people playing at that Level don't use pre-written Adventure material even when it is offered.

Per my post above on what the DM books offer for high Level play, the Bestiary has eight Tier 3 threats and five Tier 4 threats, a full third of the stat blocks on offer. And these tie specifically into the Campaign outlines provided in each Gazateer that give a direction for high Level play and endgame scenarios for Level 20 PCs.

 

[Rushbolt]

In terms of this book, however, you are looking in the wrong place for the high Level support it offers: first look to the Bestiary, then look to not the sample Adventures but the Campaign outlines in each Gazateer.

I'm going to use the Dalelands as an example then. The level 17-20 guidance is basically one line that says use a Blob of Annihilation. Could you at least devote a paragraph for 4 levels of play? Is that too much to ask?

 

[Parmandur]

I'm going to use the Dalelands as an example then. The level 17-20 guidance is basically one line that says use a Blob of Annihilation. Could you at least devote a paragraph for 4 levels of play? Is that too much to ask?

You got your Big Bad and your stakes. The DMG has a lot of advice on Adventure building, specifically to take hooks like these and build it out for your players. Amd if you have made it 16 Levels together, the hooks that will be relevant won't be things the writers of the books came up with.

 

[Rushbolt]

You got your Big Bad and your stakes. The DMG has a lot of advice on Adventure building, specifically to take hooks like these and build it out for your players. Amd if you have made it 16 Levels together, the hooks that will be relevant won't be things the writers of the books came up with.

So basically people can spend $60 on this book and if their party passes level 13 then they just need to do all the work themselves. Got it. Makes sense. I wonder why groups stop at that level? Are we really sure it's because of complexity or are we losing hundreds of groups a year discovering the fun of those levels of play because the very makers of the game have literally supported that level of play twice in 11 years?

 

[Parmandur]

So basically people can spend $60 on this book and if their party passes level 13 then they just need to do all the work themselves. Got it. Makes sense. I wonder why groups stop at that level?

Groups who play beyond around Level 11 want to do their own and don't buy higher level material, it is a consistent phenomenon across decades and different companies.

It was built, they didn't come, so it doesn't continue to be built. That's just the economics.

Any group that gets to Level 13 just off the low prep Adventures is probavly having a pretty good time and definigely got thwir money's worth of playtime, and has built memories together that the DM can mone for higher level play. You cannot pre-package that.

 

[Rushbolt]

So basically people can spend $60 on this book and if their party passes level 13 then they just need to do all the work themselves. Got it. Makes sense.

Groups who play beyond around Level 11 want to do their own and don't buy higher level material, it is a consistent phenomenon across decades and different companies.

It was built, they didn't come, so it doesn't continue to be built. That's just the economics.

Any group that gets to Level 13 just off the low prep Adventures is probavly having a pretty good time and definigely got thwir money's worth of playtime, and has built memories together that the DM can mone for higher level play. You cannot pre-package that.

I can see the rationale for the decision not to include any one or two page high-level encounters/adventures in the FR:AiF. It just disappoints me. I am probably in a very small minority of readers that it bothers, but I did want to point it out for anyone else with me in that minority if they have not already purchased the book. When you look at the preview pages and see a book has over 50 adventures for the Forgotten Realms you might assume that some are written for levels 14+. I certainly did. I am fine my purchase either way because most of my games are Tier 1 and 2.

 

[Reynard]

Sometimes these arguments feel like folks have set their positions and then work toward defending those positions regardless of anything else.

I think it is clear that WotC could provide more support for higher level play than they do. But it also clear that they do not provide NO support for high level play. The reasons for this are a little fuzzy, not least because the data we have is old, but also because it appears that the products meant to support high level play do not do as well in the market than other products. It make sense that people stop playing when they run out of well supported levels. What isn't clear is whether a campaign adventure that went to 20th from 1st would see fewer sales than one that went from 1st to 13th. One example we have that went from 5th to 20th was also a dungeon crawl -- not the most popular form of adventure these days (as well as being the follow up to a adventure that itself did not do great). The other is a "start at 10th" capstone adventure that, frankly, has pretty middling reviews. Have been a player in it, i think "middling" is being very generous.

More compelling is the apparent lack of very high level support via 3rd party publishers. Most of them seem to be following the same patterns as WotC output, albeit with more stand alone adventures.

One area I have not seen discussed is the DMsGuild: are there more high level adventures there? Especially follow ups to those ending at 13th-ish WotC ones?

 

[mamba]

So basically people can spend $60 on this book and if their party passes level 13 then they just need to do all the work themselves. Got it. Makes sense. I wonder why groups stop at that level?

most groups do not even get to 13th level, so it is not the lack of adventure support that makes them not get to 14 and higher

 

[Rushbolt]

Sometimes these arguments feel like folks have set their positions and then work toward defending those positions regardless of anything else.

I think it is clear that WotC could provide more support for higher level play than they do. But it also clear that they do not provide NO support for high level play. The reasons for this are a little fuzzy, not least because the data we have is old, but also because it appears that the products meant to support high level play do not do as well in the market than other products. It make sense that people stop playing when they run out of well supported levels. What isn't clear is whether a campaign adventure that went to 20th from 1st would see fewer sales than one that went from 1st to 13th. One example we have that went from 5th to 20th was also a dungeon crawl -- not the most popular form of adventure these days (as well as being the follow up to a adventure that itself did not do great). The other is a "start at 10th" capstone adventure that, frankly, has pretty middling reviews. Have been a player in it, i think "middling" is being very generous.

More compelling is the apparent lack of very high level support via 3rd party publishers. Most of them seem to be following the same patterns as WotC output, albeit with more stand alone adventures.

One area I have not seen discussed is the DMsGuild: are there more high level adventures there? Especially follow ups to those ending at 13th-ish WotC ones?

Chains of Asmodeus on DMs Guild is an Adamantine best seller at $30 a pop regular price for the pdf. This is from levels 11-20. It is listed as WotC product because James Ohlen has connections to them.

 

[Reynard]

Chains of Asmodeus on DMs Guild is an Adamantine best seller at $30 a pop regular price for the pdf. This is from levels 11-20.

That is the Avernus follow up?