D&D 5E Adventures in other eras?

Grainger

Explorer
It depends, too, on what era guns you're talking about. For example, in the English Civil War (1640s), it was common for the medical treatment to remove bullets to be more gruesome than the original wounding, and the high likelihood of infection to be more deadly.

But just as with medieval weapons and armour, real gunfights, and the resulting wounds, don't behave how the majority of us would think, due to us "learning" about it from movies and TV shows. In RPG terms, whether it's swords or guns, it all depends on where you want your campaign to sit on the realism/filmic scale. In all cases, you need rules and/or GM judgements to reflect what you're modelling, but in the case of realism, you also need to fight player and GM misconceptions picked up from fiction (e.g. metal shields in medieval settings, studded leather armour, etc.).
 
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GreenTengu

Adventurer
When you talk about placing it in different eras, what you are really talking about is technology level. Technology level really just means changing the equipment that is available to characters. And when you change the equipment, what you are actually doing is altering the stats that characters get from their equipment.

While this is not going to negatively affect 80% of the classes in the game since they are not particularly reliant on equipment in order to perform (basically all spellcasters)... or the equipment they are reliant on is so basic that you are more or less going to have it available in any setting from stone age to futuristic and can probably take massive advance of future tech (rangers, & rogues and likely barbarians)

The trouble comes with the Fighters and the Paladins. (Clerics too, but to a much smaller degree.)

Basically think of what you are doing as the same thing as slapping all characters who are reliant on heavy armor with a -2 to -4 AC penalty in the low-tech settings or giving all characters who use ranged attacks a +1 or +2 to all damage rolls in the high tech setting and I think you might begin to see how this affects things.

I think one problem with changing the equipment that is available is well.... Dexterity is already the god stat and changing the technology level just makes that all the worse.

Let's say because you are doing an ancient setting, suddenly all the heavy armors aren't available anymore... the best you are going to do is hide armor?

Well then, unless you are a Barbarian who gets an unarmored bonus, it is pointless to even try to build a Strength-based character. Your defenses are going to require you to have at least 14 Dexterity. Every Fighter or Paladin is going to have to be a Dexterity based one or well.... just be well behind the power curve.

Or if you advance the technology level and now you have guns that are simply more effective at doing damage than bows or crossbows and easily on par with any melee weapons? Well, at that point melee becomes a completely subpar option and you are better off boosting your Dexterity so you can take full advantage of the best weapons in the game.

I mean, unless you make ranged weapons Wisdom-based instead of Dexterity figuring the stat that governs Perception is more applicable to using ranged weapons than one's ability to jump and roll around and juggle objects. But assuming you keep Dexterity as the stat that governs both your dodging ability AND your accuracy with anything that weighs less than 10 pounds.... and, either way, again-- Strength becomes pointless beyond the minimum level you need to carry your equipment (and since you aren't going to be wearing armor-- that reduces the amount you need to carry anyway).

The classes in the game are balanced with the expectation that characters are going to have an specifically available set of equipment with particular stats. You change the available equipment options and either decrease the AC bonus one is allowed to purchase or increase the damage of ranged attacks and the system, while it doesn't collapse entirely, is simply no longer going to be balanced. But, again, it is worthwhile to point out once again that only two classes in the game are negatively affected.... Of course, granted, races that grant bonuses to Strength are also seriously negatively impacted by this unless they are barbarians in the low-tech setting and always in the higher tech setting. Half-Orcs are absolutely the most screwed except as barbarians in the low-tech setting with Mountain Dwarfs also becoming a seriously underbalanced option in either setting.
 

Ancalagon

Dusty Dragon
One stumbling block is that people expect guns to be death-wands - point, shoot, dead. Bullets mainly just punch holes in people, you're no less dead when stabbed through the heart than when shot through the heart. If 1d4 piercing for a dagger or d8 for a rapier is a deadly weapon, then a pistol doesn't need to be a whole lot different from that.

Totally - I rather would be shot at with a .22 than stabbed with a longsword... Pistols in particular aren't that damaging. The "crush" effect of the bullet can reduce the bleeding vs a frank cut. The deadliness was in part due to the difficulties in treating a penetrating wound and infection. Since infection isn't much of a thing in D&D...

In warhammer 2nd ed frpg the gun had more damage and more chance of the damage dice exploding. As armor absorbed damage in that system, it's no wonder armor never "went away"! One thing it did well was firing speed and range - unless you have riffling, the range of a gun is inferior to a good bow.

Punching through armor, OTOH, was eventually something guns did well. In 1e that'd Weapon vs Armor Type adjustments, in 3e touch AC, in 4e REF defense - in 5e the closest analogue would be a DEX save, though that doesn't dovetail well with the idea that they're weapons...

It should be easy to re-introduce touch AC in 5e no? It would make dex even more dominant than now though...
 

Grainger

Explorer
When you talk about placing it in different eras, what you are really talking about is technology level.

Interesting post, but I don't think your premise is necessarily the case. Yes, you can do it that way, just having a historical era represented essentially by the tech (weapons) used. However, different eras are distinguished by much more than tech level. And, this impact on the rules, as well as the "fluff" - for example do we have a currency, or is it a labour-provided type of society? Are we in an era of mass production? What impact does this have on prices and availability for goods and services? It just depends on how far you want to go in order to represent the historical era in question.
 

Tony Vargas

Legend
The deadliness was in part due to the difficulties in treating a penetrating wound and infection. Since infection isn't much of a thing in D&D...
The other thing that makes guns deadly is that they're relatively easy to learn to use. The same thing that helped crossbows. Funny thing is, the way simpler-to-learn weapons are modeled in D&D usually makes them sucky for adventurers (who tend to be very skillful).
So, ideally, guns should be a poor second choice for most D&D PCs, JMHO.

It should be easy to re-introduce touch AC in 5e no? It would make dex even more dominant than now though...
Nod. Easy. Not necessarily a great idea, because of the way AC keeps ending up gear-/DEX- dependent in D&D.
 

Ancalagon

Dusty Dragon
For a European flavoured setting, Dragon Warriors is brilliant, very evocative of the folklorish side to monsters (they included orcs as a monster but they stick out like a sore thumb; I think it was "expected" of an 80s rpg. Their take on hobgoblins and trolls and elves is very European - or British at least.

Oh man, I used to *love* those books - in fact I still do. I never got to actually play the system, but even today I use it as a source of material.
 




Ancalagon

Dusty Dragon
They have a revised version out, and a few pretty cool supporting bits - NPcs and adventures etc. http://www.drivethrurpg.com/m/product/90926

How is that? I was intrigued but seeing how I'm not actually playing the game and have all the old books (that I know of, 1-6), is there really value in having them?

I've used some of the adventures/maps in both D&D and warhammer frpg. I've also used the magic using system as an alternative to the warhammer magic style to differentiate the magical traditions of various races (so the humans had the unreliable, strongly focused, use at will but you might regret it "color" magic, while elves had highly versatile, reliable magic but they got "tired" quickly). It worked okay-ish.
 

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