Adventures with an XP Budget - "Strategic" Play in D&D 4E ?

Some people say that D&D 4 is not really suited to what one might call "operational" play or "strategic" play. I am not sure if I've really nailed down what it means, but the basic idea of this kind of play is that you have to manage your resources on a long-term basis. Characters avoid combats if they can, typically because it's too dangerous and costs to many resources.

Generally, D&D has a negative aspect in this regard: Avoiding combat means avoiding XP. You don't really want to do that, because gaining XP and levels is the major "carot on a stick" to motivate the players (at least on the purely mechanical side).

The key elements in 4E that still support a modicum of operation play are aspects like "daily powers" and "healing surges". While encounter powers keep you fresh, if you're out of dailies or surges, fights will become more dangerous since you don't have the chance to avoid combat. Healing Surges are particularly crucial.

Succesful operation play means you don't expend a lot of dailies or healing surges. If you do, your consequence of failure is either a deadly combat or an earlier retreat. The motivation to go on longer are milestones (from a purely mechanical point of view).

So, the interesting question is - how can we reward succesful strategic play along these ideas better.

My idea is based around the XP "Budget" concept. Each encounter has an XP budget that defines its level. Mix monsters till you have achieved the budget for the level you set yourself.

My idea is now to assume that the entire area or adventure of operation play has a XP budget. Note: Regardless how you "beat" the adventure/area, you get the same XP. but if you're clever about it, you get it easier.
It gets easier because you give the PCs the ability to "shift" XP around.

For example, the PCs might notice a group of Ogre Guards (5, maybe?).
"Hack & Slash" approach would be just to charge then and see who's left standing.
Clever Strategy might be an attempt of the PCs to lure the Ogres into an ambush, split them up, or pass them. The way to "implement" this is to create a skill challenge.

The players might want to set up an ambush. They have to specific about what they want to achieve - just attack at night, or do something more complex. Let's say they want to create a concealed trap into which the Ogers might fall. Based on the results of the skill challenge and the player description of their plan the DM then decides on the effectiveness on the trap. Let's say the description of the players suggests a concealed pit trap that the Ogers might fall into. If they succeed the challenge (combining checks to build the trap - Maybe Dungeoneering or Nature - with checks to lure the Ogers into it - Bluff, Stealth, Perception?). the Ogres will walk into the ambush, with two Ogres dropping into the trap - effectively out of the fight. The PCs now have just to face three Ogers instead of two (and the three remaining ones are also surprised!). The PCs gain XP for the 3 Ogers and for a skill challenge of a complexity equal to the remaining 2 Ogres XP.
If the PCs had failed the challenge, the Ogers might not have fallen into the trap (but the pit would still be there, so it could affect the encounter).
The PCs could have also decided to avoid the Ogers entirely. This would have resulted in a higher complexity challenge.

An entirely different idea might be that the PCs would have gone back to the city they came from and required additional forces - with a succesful social skill challenge, they might have been able to acquire 4 Guard Minions and a Guard Leader that would aid them against the Ogres. They would have still fought 5 Ogres, but they had support that might match two of the Ogres.

This idea, of course, is not a hard rule. It's just a guideline. You might want to adapt and change it. For some fans of operational play, skill challenges might just be exchanged with a convincing description of the PCs plan and execution.

A further variation I'd build in: I would not always use skill challenge DCs as determined by the PCs level. Sometimes I think it's okay to use a higher or lower level challenge - for example, if the party is level 5, and would have to fight against 5 level 9 Ogres (I don't know the actual level of Ogres, but let's pretend there were level 9 ones), you might have used a complexity 2 level 9 challenge for the trap.


So, what's the reward for the Players if the XP stays the same? The reward is basically that the actual combat encounter (if it still happens) is easier. It also means it will cost them less resources. If we'd really set up a scenario with 5 level 5 PCs against 5 level 9 Ogres, this should be pretty tough, cost a lot of healing surges and dailies and maybe a PCs life. If we reduce it to 3 level 9 Ogres, things look easier, and it might just cost a few healing surges and encounter powers. In addition - since you have split up the encounter in "setting up the ambush" (skill challenge) and "kill the ogers" (combat), the PCs have beaten two encounters and get an action point.

Aside from skill challenges, Quest XP might also result in similar rewards. For example, if the PCs manage to rescue an imprisoned warrior, he might thankfully join them for the upcoming encounters.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Sounds workable, although I wouldn't always set the skill challenge to the same difficulty as the monsters. If the PCs have great stealth skills, and wait for the Ogres to be asleep, they would definitely have an easier time sneaking past than fighting them normally, or engaging in a skill challenge of the same difficulty. Conversely, if they go out of their way to overcomplicate things, it's going to be harder.

I believe the concept of "defeating", as opposed to "fighting" an encounter already exists (certainly it did in 3E, and I don't think 4E changes it). That is, if there are two Ogres and your goal is to get past them, then you get the XP for getting past them, whether you do it by fighting them, sneaking past, convincing them to let you through, bribing them, luring another monster over there to fight them, poisoning their food, etc.

Part of the key to strategic play is that not all options are equally difficult. You can do things the hard way, or you can make a good plan and get a significant advantage, or even bypass a normally difficult encounter completely. So it's important not to be afraid of the PCs "trivializing" an encounter - just remember you have an unlimited supply of monsters, and it's not a problem if some of those monsters are defeated more easily than normal.
 

Sounds workable, although I wouldn't always set the skill challenge to the same difficulty as the monsters. If the PCs have great stealth skills, and wait for the Ogres to be asleep, they would definitely have an easier time sneaking past than fighting them normally, or engaging in a skill challenge of the same difficulty. Conversely, if they go out of their way to overcomplicate things, it's going to be harder.

I believe the concept of "defeating", as opposed to "fighting" an encounter already exists (certainly it did in 3E, and I don't think 4E changes it). That is, if there are two Ogres and your goal is to get past them, then you get the XP for getting past them, whether you do it by fighting them, sneaking past, convincing them to let you through, bribing them, luring another monster over there to fight them, poisoning their food, etc.

Part of the key to strategic play is that not all options are equally difficult. You can do things the hard way, or you can make a good plan and get a significant advantage, or even bypass a normally difficult encounter completely. So it's important not to be afraid of the PCs "trivializing" an encounter - just remember you have an unlimited supply of monsters, and it's not a problem if some of those monsters are defeated more easily than normal.
You might be right, not all options are equally difficult. But a low complexity skill challenge (at least with the errata ;) ) and a fight against fewer monsters will be easier then running against all the monsters. I think the mix of "per encounter" and "daily" powers really strengtens this approach - you will probably not spend any dailies (or surges) during the challenge, and you also won't in the easier version of the fight.

I know that overcoming monsters without killing them rewards XP at least since 3E, but I also know that it doesn't always "sit right" with players and DMs if it looked to easy. "Oh, we just don't go through the tunnel with the trolls and take the longer passage. Woohoo! XP for CR7!). A skill challenge is a way to ensure you "worked" for the XP and makes everyone warm and fuzzy inside (or so ;) ).
 


Hmm. Apparently, no one cares about operation or strategic play in 4E...

I care, just missed the thread. I enjoy a game with an emphasis on resource management. My players don't, so I don't get to indulge it often, but there's always OLGs to flex those muscles.

I love the idea of tying actual XP rewards to the adventure or encounter as opposed to specifically the monsters. You can still use the budget to build balanced encounters and then free the PCs to vary their approach. If they manage to retrieve the Mask of Awe from the desecrated temple without ever engaging the temple's denizens in combat, they get full XP and have pulled off something pretty special. It would really free PCs to approach things in any number of unorthodox ways, and players are nothing if not capable of the unorthodox.

This idea solves the problem of presenting games with a focus on resource management. The thing to flesh out now is how to utilize this in 4e and think around any problems that might come out. Surges are one of the main areas of management and you make their management a priority in the same way you utilized the nature of the game day in any other game. Restricting the opportunities for that extended rest, rather through time pressure, environmental, or simple lack of opportunity (can't take an extended rest or retreat to return another day when you're infiltrating the temple.

Equipment management might be a bit more of a problem in 4e, but easily fixed I think. With the games hand wave of mundane equipment, it will take a bit more effort to make it important, requiring equipment to achieve certain tasks and the like. Some of it, ammunition, food and water, are made important in the need for management through the environment or lack of opportunity to replenish -forays deep into the forbidden jungle, that sort of thing.

The equipment list would be easy to expand and, iirc, some of the rules/guidelines in the 2e Wilderness Survival Guide would serve well, as would any Arms and Equipment Guide. I think the way to balance that is not to make the equipment absolutely necessary, but to set the DCs for challenges higher and then give bonuses for equipment use to bring it back to the level of challenge it would be if you weren't messing with it in the first place.

Any other areas of resource you can think of that might need to be dealt with in adapting to the system?
 

I like the cut of your jib, Mustrum. I think that sits very comfortably how I think about encounter design.

One small point though; it seems to me that if the PCs took the longer tunnel (in your example) they would be avoiding the threat rather than overcoming it. If they manage to sneak around the ogres, distract them/lure them away etc, then they'd be overcoming the challenge.

But that (rather trivial) quibble aside, top stuff!
 

Probably an even simpler way to get the same effect is to simply remove XP for monster-defeating entirely (or at least mostly) and take the XP that would be granted by the monster budget of an area or encounter sequence, lump it into one or more Quests that can be accomplished in that area or encounter sequence, and leave it to the players how to hit those Quests.
 

As a player trying to maximize experience points gained, yes, it makes sense to lure monsters into fights where they're outnumbered or otherwise at a disadvantage.

On the one hand, I guess it's a good thing that this kind of meta-gaming actually matches what many characters should want to do in game as well.

On the other hand, it points out a flaw in 4E's replacement for CRs and ELs. Facing one ogre at a time, four times in a row, is nowhere near as difficult as facing four ogres at once.
 

I like the cut of your jib, Mustrum. I think that sits very comfortably how I think about encounter design.

One small point though; it seems to me that if the PCs took the longer tunnel (in your example) they would be avoiding the threat rather than overcoming it.

Maybe, but if you don't get XP for "avoiding" a fight, the mechanics provide an incentive to not avoid the fight, while all logic says the PCs would avoid them. So you might want to provide a way to get the PCs some XP without the players "regretting" it. An alternative encounter (skill challenge) that rewards the same XP is an option. I am not sure it's always the best or feels "right" (why do I have to run a complexity 4 challenge to bypass 4 Ogres?), but it is an approach that needs to be looked at.
Of course, a simple alternative approach would be to just forget XP from encounters and just reward fixed XP (the budget for the adventure) at the end, without looking at the individual challenges defeated. Some people might go even further and just tell the players when to get a level. The disadvantage is a little that XP are always a carot by which to mechanically motiviate the players to act. It feels good to earn a direct reward for finishing a particular task.
 

I agree with the OP that to encourage a broader set of behavior, XP should be given at a more macro level.

Just look at P1. There is an encounter where you can fight a level appropriate solo encounter, or convince it to let you pass. By the book, if you fight you get 3000xp and a bunch of treasure. If you do the skill challenge you get 600xp. This skill challenge should be worth 3000xp.

However, I think this is an example of a more macro challenge in most XP/level based RPGS not just 4e. The real challenge is what is the definition of PC success, and how do you measure it in a game that has no score that tells you "you won".

What is "doing better" in the game vs. "doing worse" mean?
1) minimize player death and TPKs?
2) level as fast as possible?
3) staying in-character?

Because the DM/players are trying to strike a balance between challange, fun, consistency, etc. you get into some odd things you don't have to worry about in Risk. If the players miss hidden treasure (doing worse?), do you give them more later to keep them on par with level guidelines? If the players avoid combats and are only level 5 when they should be level 7 for a combat encounter, do you adjust it? Etc.
 

Remove ads

Top