advice and ideas

[Veranis]

Hey All I am currently working on a campaign set in 4th edition forgotten realms, The basic premise of my campaign is that the Heroes work for a sort of adventurers guild that specializes in dungeon delves, as the heroes progress throuugh the story they eventually unleash a very powerful and destructive force upon the world.
The real meat of the campaign is after this event. The heroes having no way to combat this new threat but feeling obligated to intervene must comprimise more and more to obtain the power to defeat it. eventually the campaign ends at around their first epic level when they finally cross the line to defeat this force. Saving the world but also causing a cataclysm and cementing the heroes as the villains in my next campaign in which new heroes try to reverse the cataclysm.
I have had plenty of time to work on this campaign and have not started to play it yet but I am officially stuck. I am having a difficult time figuring out how to get the heroes to start down the slippery slope to evil, does anyone have any ideas? the big thing here is I want the players to see there is a price for power yet at the same time I want them to be trying to do the right thing, like when lawful good clerics purge entire towns for being "heretical"
any help would be extremely appreciated

 

[Mark CMG]

Be careful not to write a story that has no real need for the players. Events during the course of the game should unfold from character actions. What the characters cannot affect is often best expressed prior to the beginning of the actual game, as back story. From the point at which the game begins, players will feel most involved if they have control over their actions and the outcome of their actions. A string of results that will come about no matter what actions they take will leave players feeling frustrated and dissatisfied with a game.

 

[nedjer]

I'd probably avoid any plot requirement that meant the players/ PCs had to cross the line. If they did, good, if not, planted evidence, blackmail or an ancient curse might offer alternative approaches to head in the direction of making or branding them 'evil' for the next campaign?

Along the way I might use 'righting a wrong' aka 'an eye for an eye', a traitor, enchanted items/ gold, (which corrupts/ gets players to 'turn' in steps as they choose whether or not to get all the pieces of an item/ collect more of the corrupting items in the knowledge it'll lead to incremental consequences), emotional pleas for the PCs to 'do something that really counts', family or friends being picked on, 'accidental' crime, (caught with forgeries, clipped gold coins), options to make life much easiser by paying a bribe, pressure/ press-ganging to get caught-up in 'crusading zeal' . . .

Once a small compromise has been made it can be used to fuel/ tempt further corruption. This can switch to or between rewards for being unpleasant and penalties fro not being unpleasant.

HTH

 

[Mesh Hong]

any help would be extremely appreciated

I know this is probably not what you are wanting to hear but I am going to say it anyway as it is my lawful good duty (burn me at the stake if you like ).

Don't concentrate on the end of the story (in this case Epic tier) when you havn't even started it yet.

Not only will it be a waste of your valuable time, but it might hamper and detract from your Heroic and Paragon tier stories as you will be forever trying to shoe horn everything into the right shape for your predetermined final scene. You will knowingly or unwittingly straight jacket your players into following your preconceived plot line.

It is easier to get the best out of a long term campaign when you don't know the ending yourself. It is also a lot more fun to run.

I am not saying ignore the end game completely, but keep its concept purposely vague. Put all your efforts into making the small part of the story the PCs are actually doing at the moment into the best it can possibly be.

You will probably be surprised that your players come up with a better and more intricate plot than you can, and it will better realised because they will be a lot more invested in it.

All you need to do is listen and give them an occasional nudge in the direction you want to take it.

[/end of holier than thou attitude]

By the way welcome to EnWorld! and feel free to ignore my advice after all you didn't really ask for it!

 

[Whisper72]

Well, although I concur with the mentions that you should try to avoid railroading / making the decisions of the PC's meaningless, there are nonetheless some ways to 'force' the PC's onto the path of evil.

Present them with a choice between two evils. Even if choosing for the lesser evil, they will be besmirched.

Another idea to ensure that the heroes of today are the villains of tomorrow; maybe they are not at all evil, but the various leaders in the current world ARE. They decide how the historians write down what happened, and in the annals, as written by the rulers of the 'old world', the heroes' actions are described as pure evil and cast in the most negative light possible.

In the next age, the job of the new heroes is not only to right the (perceived) wrongs of the old 'heroes', but they can try to modify the perception as well, showing the world that they were not evil at all....

 

[the Jester]

Hey All I am currently working on a campaign set in 4th edition forgotten realms, The basic premise of my campaign is that the Heroes work for a sort of adventurers guild that specializes in dungeon delves, as the heroes progress throuugh the story they eventually unleash a very powerful and destructive force upon the world.

What if they don't pull the lever/break the seal/open the door/whatever that holds the powerful and destructive choice in check?

The real meat of the campaign is after this event. The heroes having no way to combat this new threat but feeling obligated to intervene must comprimise more and more to obtain the power to defeat it.

What if they won't compromise their morals? What if this makes them feel like you've decided what their characters will be like and taken away their autonomy?

eventually the campaign ends at around their first epic level when they finally cross the line to defeat this force.

What if they won't cross the line?

Saving the world but also causing a cataclysm and cementing the heroes as the villains in my next campaign in which new heroes try to reverse the cataclysm.

What if they refuse to take the path that causes the cataclysm? What if they don't want to be villains?

I have had plenty of time to work on this campaign and have not started to play it yet but I am officially stuck. I am having a difficult time figuring out how to get the heroes to start down the slippery slope to evil, does anyone have any ideas?

Don't. Stop now. If you must, write a short story or book about this, because what you have here is a story, not a campaign. You've already taken all the big choices away. What kind of people are these heroes? Well, they're corruptible, responsible for many horrors, and they will do whatever it takes to fix it!

You haven't even started playing. How do you already know the pcs will fall in line? If they don't, will you force them back onto the tracks?

Instead of what you are doing, I would set up situations that could lead to your envisioned scenario- if the pcs make the right (or wrong) choices. But I advise strongly against having the "story" approach to a D&D game.

the big thing here is I want the players to see there is a price for power yet at the same time I want them to be trying to do the right thing, like when lawful good clerics purge entire towns for being "heretical"
any help would be extremely appreciated

Instead of deciding what YOU want the players to do, dm to what THEY want to do.

That's my advice. Don't know if it helps any, but having a pre-written story like this often leads to disastrous trainwrecks.

 

[Thornir Alekeg]

I'm in agreement with what everybody else posted so far. Remember, far-sighted campaigns are like battle plans; they great until contact with the enemy (or in this case, the PCs).

Make sure that you are creating a game where the players have fun. I have made the mistake of setting the PCs up with the "lesser of two evils" situation, and it backfired on me when the players disliked being put into that position to the point where they almost gave up on the game. They wanted to play heroes, not grim and gritty adventurers. I too came in the the idea of "teaching" the players about the dark side of repsonsibility and power. Turns out that after a long week at work, they just wanted to relax by kicking Evil's butt, not being challenged by moral dilemmas.

 

[nedjer]

A lot of nodding the head in agreement with this stuff, but what's not clear is whether the guy got some basic information from his players at the outset and they requested some of what's planned?

If they've bought into GM-directed linear plotting and play, much as it pains me, they're effectively asking for a shrink-wrapped module. Not my cup of tea but if that's what the group wants . . .