Advice for a new player bored with his character

[Dausuul]

Hmm. A shield-and-shortsword warrior in core-only 3E, approaching the levels where casters turn into minor deities, with limited access to suitable magic items... I believe we have a challenge.

Since you fight with a light weapon and don't go in for heavy armor, I suggest re-building your character as a barbarian with a dip in rogue. Three levels of rogue works pretty well, as that gives you 2d6 sneak attack but only costs you one point of BAB.

This should work out better for you than a straight fighter build. Rogue sneak attack and barbarian rage will beef up your damage output while adding a bit of tactical complexity, and you can coordinate with your fellow rogue to flank enemies every chance you get. You also get a wider array of class skills and more skill points to put in 'em, improving your effectiveness out of combat. Put your first, seventh, and eighth levels in rogue to get the most out of your skills.

Just make sure your DM is okay with letting you use sneak attack while raging.

An alternative would be to stay a straight fighter, but wield a longspear or glaive and specialize in that. This is actually much closer to how the Greeks fought--the spear was the main weapon, the sword was a sidearm used only in emergencies. There's a lot to be said for reach weapons! Get Power Attack, Cleave, and Combat Reflexes if you've got the Dexterity. Then stand in front and watch enemies cry as they try to close with you.

And yes, definitely get a cohort! That gives you lots of options for both roleplaying and combat fun, and lets you try out new classes without giving up your old PC. (It's also the only feat that gives you a hope of keeping up with the casters as you pass level 10. Leadership is the single most munchkin feat in the Player's Handbook. Make sure your Charisma is at least 12 and ideally 14, to keep your cohort's level maxed out as long as possible.) If you want to stick with your ancient Greek theme... Achilles and Patroclus, that's all I'm sayin'.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

1) If the PC has a high Dex- as I'm sure he does, being lightly armored- look into the Combat Reflexes feat tree: Hold the Line, Stand Still and Deft Opportunist means you'll get good results from your attacks of opportunity...especially if you're using a reach weapon.

2) There is also a feat that let's you get +5' reach with a weapon...Lunging Strike?

3) As long as you're asking your DM for stuff, ask for a special magic item that fits your PC concept & mechanics. I'm thinking a spiked shield, with the spikes enchanted with the Defending property: on command, it will float around you, boosting your AC, letting you do things like wield a heavier spear (longspear or greatspear; giving you reach and 2handed weapon damage) without losing your shield's bonus to your AC.

4) If you get a cohort, there is a tactical feat called Phalanx Fighter that rewards teamwork and is clearly thematically appropriate.

 

[JiffyPopTart]

Mix in a few levels of rogue so you can get sneak attack damage whenever you are flanking.

Specialize in Short swords and two-weapon fighting (and any other feats you want to tack on related to this theme).

Grab two different magical short swords and go to town.

DS

 

[Dross]

There is no reason that some basic attitudes CAN'T change due to the PC's experiences while adventuring. Use different styles, weapons, realise that heavier armour is needed (or special materials would be useful for current armour styles), find some critter that you really hate.

As a DM, I also would not be against a player submitting a thematically appropriate magic item to use. How the PC gets it tho'

I've noticed a few mechanical suggestions, mostly feats and the like are not "mostly core"

So trying 1-3 levels of levels of other classes could be appropriate:

• Rogue: sneak attack for placing the short sword nicely and evasion to get our of the way of fireballs (lightly armoured implies movement and dodging). Pick up a skillset that might help: Tumble & move silently/Hide to get into position, Appraise for your loot, Gather Info, Know Local. Use magic device might be useful. Spot & listen is always useful.
• Barbarian: mainly for the movement, but from what you have said rage doesn't really fit (although yes you can sneak attack while raging). Survival and Track to help the ranger.
• Ranger: I really hate those #$%^. Knowing about Dungeons (especially if the other ranger does not) or geography can be helpful.
• Sorcerer: (it's a dip so a couple of useful utility spells would be the way I'd go). Prestidigitation, light (no longer need to be afraid of the dark), Expeditious retreat, true strike, ventriloquism, mage hand, alarm, grease, obscuring mist. Try for tings that aid or boost yourself rather than affect an enemy directly. Also means use of a number of magic items.

Profession or Craft (the crafting rules are not universally liked) could be useful, especially when tied to an oft used skill: Woodworking or stoneworking for search. Cooking for gather info, decreasing getting caught while eating, search (in a kitchen environment). you just need to be able to entice the DM to include synergy style bonuses.

And if the DM allows, you can go the redesign with these in mind.

 

[mrorangesoda]

We had a game session tonight that went well. I got to do some battle planning, which I decided I should be more emphatic about based on some bits in my original character bio. I had a brief discussion with my DM about changing some things up, and he seems pretty open as long as it can be kept in story somehow and is from the core books (no fancy stuff like warblade I'm afraid).
I'm making a thread about tweaking the character over in the legacy sub forum which seems to be the place for builds and stuff (http://www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-le...cter-human-fighter-level-9-a.html#post5349285), but if you have more player advice I'd welcome it. thanks for the feedback thus far.

edit- I'm going to put it here too. two threads is seeming like a lot of clicking/a lot of double exposition. If build stuff is frowned upon in this section, let me know and I'll take it down-
My DM is cool with multi-classing going forward (not backward, but I didn't really press it) and seems to be alright with some mods to feats in theory, so I'm looking for stuff to bring back to him next game session. We're only using the core books and I need to be able to work changes into my/our story (so one big caveat is that being in hostile territory underground for the long foreseeable future, changes in gear and the ability to get a cohort with the leadership feat that people had mentioned seems kind of dodgy).



Here are my stats:
Phesseus human fighter level 9 39,900 XP
Hp 100 AC 26 BAB +9/+4 Speed- 30ft
Str 18
Dex 13 Fort 9
Con 16 Ref 6
Int 10 Will 5
Wis 11
Cha 11

skills/feats
Climb- 12
Jump- 12 (+5)
Swim- 8

Weapon Focus-Short Sword
Weapon Spec-Short Sword
Lightning Reflexes
Endurance
Quick Draw
Power Attack
Cleave
Iron Will
Dodge
Improved Crit- Short Sword

Gear:
Magic +2 Short Sword (crit 17-20)
Masterworked Javelin (there's a stock of these for me in the rogue's magic quiver and the magic house thing we use for storage)
Magic +3 dagger
Magic +1 Breast Plate
Lion's Shield (Magic +2, bite attack 2d6- 3/day)
Boots of Striding and Springing (+10ft to speed, +5 to jump)
Amulet of Natural Armor (+2)
Ring of Protection (+3)
Additionally, when we went back to the surface for a bit, we spent a lot of our giant stack o' gold on magic stuff that's being sent our way. I've got a better breast plate, dex gloves, str belt, and a magic returning javelin on it's way to be delivered to our underdark staging area in 5 game time weeks.

 

[Neonchameleon]

We had a game session tonight that went well. I got to do some battle planning, which I decided I should be more emphatic about based on some bits in my original character bio. I had a brief discussion with my DM about changing some things up, and he seems pretty open as long as it can be kept in story somehow and is from the core books (no fancy stuff like warblade I'm afraid).
I'm making a thread about tweaking the character over in the legacy sub forum which seems to be the place for builds and stuff (http://www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-le...cter-human-fighter-level-9-a.html#post5349285), but if you have more player advice I'd welcome it. thanks for the feedback thus far.

Here are my stats:
Phesseus human fighter level 9 39,900 XP
[Snip]

Looks like a solid vanilla weapon specialist fighter to me There are only three ways to play a fighter in the PHB - weapon specialist, trip and disarm specialist, and whirlwind attacker. (And by your level you can probably get two). All are, regrettably, dull. (The others add tricks but little more than that). Not a bad build - just a boring class. Jump and Climb both lose bigtime to Fly - as does swim And Linear Fighter/Quadratic Wizard (i.e. the casters rapidly outgrow the non-casters) is a serious problem with 3e.

By level 9 the problem is bad enough that a straight bard is almost as good at your job as you are* - and three fights/day (assuming your fight doesn't last 8 rounds) a barbarian would be significantly better with it being close the rest of the time. (The difference is significant enough and the class is similar enough that it might be worth asking to respec to a barbarian - of your five bonus feats, the effect of four (Weapon Focus, Improved Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialisation, Iron Will) are all covered by your rage for three fights per day. Meaning you'll gain 10hp, 22 skill points (assuming you buy off illiteracy), fast movement, improved uncanny dodge, trap sense, and a point of damage resistance all for the low, low price of the dodge feat and a 2 point AC penalty in exchange for 18hp and +2 fort when raging.

The depressing thing is that you actually haven't done aything wrong. Fighters are just weak - especially in core. Honestly, if you want to shine you want a Druid. *Smirks evilly* (But such traps are why I no longer play 3e).

* Inspire Courage +2 means his damage matches yours hit for hit and his to hit is only two behind yours - if he has another round to Inspire Greatness he's just caught you on to hit and hit points. Oh, and Inspire Courage helps everyone hit more and harder. His toughness really isn't bad if he's using Alter Self - Lizardman (+5AC for 90 minutes per casting for a 2nd level spell).

 

[Thanael]

I feel like he's got some personality-- my two big things coming in were that he'd be kinda vain/a huge flirt (with people of any race or gender he found attractive) and afraid of the dark (he'd use two torches when only one was needed, etc). The last thing got thrown out when in my first session I learned we had some magic thing that makes it bright around us all the time. I've been playing with the latter (I often take a free action to toss my long hair), but I feel like due to where the campaign is (underground fighting evil things for a long stretch of time), it's been harder to exploit and dig into so the combat thing has prompted this thread.
I'll consider a cohort as another option to mix things up though. Thanks.

Lol.

Well he could try to catch the eye of a female drow and become her love-slave though i think this wouldn't get him far...

What's his alignment anyways?

 

[Dausuul]

My DM is cool with multi-classing going forward...

Gee, how generous of him.

It's not like multiclassing is some weird exotic house rule requiring special dispensation. It's a standard part of 3E rules. The weird exotic house rule would be not allowing it. This is like saying "My DM is cool with me continuing to gain hit points when I level."

...(not backward, but I didn't really press it) and seems to be alright with some mods to feats in theory, so I'm looking for stuff to bring back to him next game session. We're only using the core books and I need to be able to work changes into my/our story (so one big caveat is that being in hostile territory underground for the long foreseeable future, changes in gear and the ability to get a cohort with the leadership feat that people had mentioned seems kind of dodgy).

Translation: Your DM is not okay with you respeccing in any significant way and you're not getting a cohort. Bit of a harder line than I would take as DM with a novice player, but it is what it is.

I hate to say it, but as far as making your character mechanically more interesting, versatile, or powerful goes... you're screwed. Just tweaking your feats isn't going to do much of anything for you; like Neonchameleon says, your existing feat choices are as good as anything you're apt to find in core. You can't even become a trip/disarm monkey or a whirlwind fighter, since all of those options require Combat Expertise which requires Intelligence 13*.

So, at this point you've got a choice. Recognize that your character will continue to be, mechanically speaking, a one-trick pony and that trick is going to get less and less useful (if you think you're overshadowed by the spellcasters now, wait till level 12 or 13). With that in mind, you can:

• Focus on building up the character through roleplaying. Some people can derive great satisfaction from RP alone; the PC's mechanical abilities don't affect their fun at all. Unfortunately, based on the fact that you posted this thread in the first place... I don't think you're one of those people. (For what it's worth, I'm not either.) Feel free to give it a try, but don't beat yourself up over it if you can't make it work for you.
• Scrap this character and make a new one. This is what I'd go with in your place. You're new to the game, you should try out some different things and see what you enjoy the most. Based on what you've said here, I suspect a spellcaster is the way you want to go. You've already implied you were interested in being a wizard, so why not give that a shot?

[size=-2]*Well, there are ways to accomplish this, but they involve either waiting till level 20 so you can buy up your Int, or sweet-talking the DM into giving you a +4 headband of intellect. Technically it's legal to take a feat using an item-boosted ability score as the prerequisite; you just can't use the feat when you don't have the item active. Bit sketchy though, and many DMs wouldn't allow it.[/size]

 

[pawsplay]

Weapon Focus-Short Sword
Weapon Spec-Short Sword
Lightning Reflexes
Endurance
Quick Draw
Power Attack
Cleave
Iron Will
Dodge
Improved Crit- Short Sword

Cleave is sort of situational for a low damage output fighter, and Power Attack doesn't work with shortswords (light weapon). With that Dex, you won't be able to rebuild for TWF, so let's focus on strengths. Straight up damage is good. I'd suggest replacing those those two feats with Blind-Fight and Brutal Thrower, with Greater Weapon Focus next on the list. Blind-Fight gives you something you can do that most summons cannot and may save your bacon against an enemy rogue sometime. Brutal Thrower puts your returning javeling, with Str to +damage and +attack, into the realm of a level-appropriate attack.

So looking to the future... Level 10, take Greater weapon focus (shortsword), Level 12 Point Blank shot + Far Shot, 14 greater weapon Specialzation (shortsword), 15 weapon focus (javelin). I have two suggestions as to how to proceed after that.

On the one hand, you can stick with the fighter archetype, if that's what you want. In that case, I suggest taking an increase to Dex at levels 12 and 16, raising your AC by one and making you eligible for TWF at level 16. At that point, you can use two shortswords (actually taking advantage of the light weapon aspect and also doing the cool Trojan War movie thing) or, with Quick Draw, throw two javelins (hey, that's cool, right?).

Alternatively, you could acknowledge that at high levels, the fighter does not always have something exciting to do. I'm fine with that, but not everyone is. Just as the wizard has the golem, the fighter has the obstacle scene, for which only a high skill check or a cool spell is really going to do the trick. You can either take one level of Rogue, gaining a sneak attack die and 8+ ranks of Use Magic Device, or one level in a spellcaster. I suggest one level of a Cleric with the Magic domain, allowing you to use virtually any magical wand.

 

[mrorangesoda]

What's his alignment anyways?

Chaotic Good

Gee, how generous of him.

It's not like multiclassing is some weird exotic house rule requiring special dispensation. It's a standard part of 3E rules. The weird exotic house rule would be not allowing it. This is like saying "My DM is cool with me continuing to gain hit points when I level."

Translation: Your DM is not okay with you respeccing in any significant way and you're not getting a cohort. Bit of a harder line than I would take as DM with a novice player, but it is what it is.

The PH Multiclassing section says to discuss it with your DM. I was still under the thinking that I could tweak some things and be on track (that's looking like its not really the case) so I didn't really press it.
I'm actually more interested in the rp stuff than the mechanic stuff. This thread's here largely due to where we are in this campaign with all of the hacking and slashing. Better communication is clearly going to change more than feat/class selection.