Advice needed before my rogue commits suicide

PrinceZane

First Post
For those of you who read my last post, Rogue Junk, you know a little bit about my party. If not, here's a "brief" description. *clears his throat*

First off, again, move the post if necessary, and I apologize for the legnth of this post. I have a feeling it will be quite legnthy.

Our party consists of 5 members, all are level 8, except 1 who is level 10. We have a rogue (myself), 2 fighters, a cleric, and a wizard (the level 10). We're currently going through a nice undead/necro quest.

Here is where the asking of advice comes in. (This post may be fairly long. I'll try to shorthand it where possible.)

So after a disasterous meeting last weekend, I'm really not sure how things are going to go. We had a particular type of undead (From L.M.) that fire/heat rejuvy'd him instead of hurt like typical. After about 2-3 rounds of fireballs and such, I can't help but metagame and scream out that it's not doing any harm. Another round passes, the wizard is dropping mag missiles and such, but our faithful cleric is unleashing the fury of Hell on these guys. Unfortunately (according to most common "Hell") that's a bunch of fire. So anyway, the 2nd round since my outburst goes by, and yup, more fire. The DM (and his assistant) are laughing uncontrollably, I'm starting to smoke from my ears, the wizard is looking at him with a "wtf" look, and the rest of the party are kinda looking around trying to figure out why DM, wizard, and myself are in shock. Somehow, personally I think DM dropped alot of stats or somethin, but we finally make it through the fight.

This week comes along. As we're sitting down to begin, the horrors of last week flood into mind. I give a nice pep talk about paying attention and being smart, and all that fun happy stuff. Our first fight of the night consists of a few regular 'ol zombies, and 2 Entombers (I think that's what they were called). The Entombers main job is to use a SA to knock their opp into the ground, in essence to bury them alive. Well, several rounds of combat progress and our tanks are (as they put it) "Being a real life Whack-A-Moles". It ends up being 2 unconscious tanks, I've got 6 out of 6 mobs (4 zombs, 2 ents) surrounding me pulling some wicked dodging (Gotta love Comb Exp w/ a 20 dex), our cleric (evil) runs out of heal spells so he starts going out trying to grab a few hits with his axe ("I don't have any heal spells, all I have left are my rebuke undead things"). So that leaves our wizard. The only other person with intelligence. Woo, he nails a Command Undead on one of the Ents. Then it's the mobs turn: 8 attacks on the rogue, 8 misses. The cleric is up. Alright, successful hit.... on the Ent that our wizard just successfully made the Com Und on. At this point me and the wizard are starting to plot the cleric's death. (Hey, he's a CR 8, good xp for us). After a couple rounds of nothing later, I get knocked out. DM said since I was stabilized at -9, he would still allow me 1 partial action per round. Not wanting to risk 6 AoOs I just stay on the ground. The zombies wander off and eventually slowly get taken out 1 by 1. The Ents are still trying their SA to put me underground (assuming to raise me as zombie if I suffocate). I think at least 5-6 rounds go by with me on the ground making every reflex to avoid the entombment. FORTUNATELY, the cleric finally gets KO'd. The wizard starts going to work, taking out 1 at a time until all thats left is 1 zombie and 2 Ents. Finally, they get me. The wizard is exhausted of any offensive spell by this time. He goes invisible. Runs over, digs the fighter out and pours a cure potion on him. Ditto for me. Throws up a wall of force to keep the baddies out. Finally a dim light is appearing at the end of the tunnel. To save space here, things pass, I exhaust all 15 of my cure mod pots (using only 2 of them to get myself alive), we eventually save everyone and only 1 of the fighters actually dies. We take a break (RL, not in game) and after small talk, the DM agrees to reimpliment the fallen fighter. (Side Note again: there was a group of NPCs that set off before us, but we've yet to come accross them.) All this took place in a graveyard, en route to a mausoleum. We get to the maus, make our way inside to a dark room. I scope the place out (Quick side note: one of the fighters is a pure moron. Charges into an adult red dragon leaving the party 60 ft away for example. Anyway, while the approachment and searching through room 1 of the maus, they're sitting back bsing about anime and games). The fighter gets in a "I follow John" trance (John being me) and basically, I just got myself a cohort. Nothing exciting about the room except a breathing and an arm sticking out from an opening in the bottom of the wall. I tell the fighter to pull it out and check it. He takes his greatsword, impales it into the hand and drags the body out. There is no breathing anymore, and our fallen fighter is AGAIN dead (The DM was going to say he was part of the other NPC group that managed to hide when he was in very critical health -1hp-) After another break the DM just waves that ever happening and we finally get our fighter back. To save space, pretty much the same types of things happen for another hour - hour and 1/2 and we call it a night. (And I didn't even get into the fact that our wizard has a better heal check than our cleric, and that a cleric that doesn't know how to neutralize poisons, and all that kind of fun stuff!)

If anyone wants more details, let me know, I'll figure out a way to go more in depth without crowding the post more than I have. Sorry about the legnth. For those who are still with me:

WHAT DO I DO?! Seriously, I am completely baffled at how to progress. I'm pretty screwed being a rogue -vs- undead and constructs (virtually the only thing in the quest) and our wizard can only do so much. I'm open to any and all suggestions (Me and the wizard haven't completely ruled out teleporting back to town leaving the rest and joining a new group. We probably won't to save from getting into a RL fight about things, but....)
 

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PrinceZane said:
For those of you who read my last post, Rogue Junk, you know a little bit about my party. If not, here's a "brief" description. *clears his throat*

WHAT DO I DO?! Seriously, I am completely baffled at how to progress. I'm pretty screwed being a rogue -vs- undead and constructs (virtually the only thing in the quest) and our wizard can only do so much. I'm open to any and all suggestions (Me and the wizard haven't completely ruled out teleporting back to town leaving the rest and joining a new group. We probably won't to save from getting into a RL fight about things, but....)

Maybe both of you can dictate to the other party members that you guys are obviously the ones to be in charge, seeing as how you have survived while the others almost died.

I would find a new game, myself. I can't stand idiots like your fighter and the cleric.

Maybe you can get together with the entire party and explain to the Dragon-charger and the cleric that they are not effective/suicidally stupid and they need to change.
 
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Well, the problem with finding other people: these guys are all actually very good friends of mine. Our own little circle and what not. And they're awesome outside of D&D. Just whenever we get into the game its like their intelligence drops to that of a gellatinous cube, or worse. And I was DM of our group for a while, and I was very very strongly an enforcer of no metagaming etc, and I feel that playing their character (in essence) would be that so as to not be a hypocrit, I'm trying to avoid that. The DM has thankfully "not heard" a few suggestions me and the wizard have said, but I don't want to abuse it if at all possible.

And what is the gravestrike feat? I've seen the spell, but it's a cleric spell with a personal range. If you have desc, prereqs etc please let me know.
 

PrinceZane said:
Well, the problem with finding other people: these guys are all actually very good friends of mine. Our own little circle and what not. And they're awesome outside of D&D. Just whenever we get into the game its like their intelligence drops to that of a gellatinous cube, or worse. And I was DM of our group for a while, and I was very very strongly an enforcer of no metagaming etc, and I feel that playing their character (in essence) would be that so as to not be a hypocrit, I'm trying to avoid that. The DM has thankfully "not heard" a few suggestions me and the wizard have said, but I don't want to abuse it if at all possible.

Well, first of all, just because you are friends doesn't mean you can't game with other people. But anyway.

Realistically, if I was a soldier, and a comrade of mine charged blindly towards an obviously superior enemy formation, I'd leave him behind ASAP. Or stay away from him, if he survived.
 

This may seem appropos of nothing but...

One of the first major lessons I learned as an attorney was "You can't help everyone." Sometimes, your client will just stupid himself into a bigger fine or a longer jail sentence.

Continue playing with these guys, but have a private talk with the GM. Ask him to let actions have appropriate consequences, namely the "4 D's"- Dumb Decisions Deserve Death. If a human PC insists on using his Pankration wrestling skills (clad only in olive oil, like the Olympians) on a ghast you encounter, let his ass get paralyzed and save him, should you so desire.

As another gaming buddy of mine frequently points out, one of his old parties encountered something EXTREMELY tough, so his FIRST action was "Dave...I'm going to run for it!" while the rest of the party charged. Action 2 was "Did I mention I'm running? Good, I run some more.", and 3rd was "Still running!" Needless to say, that PC was among the few survivors.

Eventually, your fellow gamers will wise up, or they will 4D themselves into rolling new PCs, and your veteran Rogue will impress the youngbloods with his stories of "What not to do when fighting X."
 


Well, as for the players and such... this is the only group around that I know of. Well, there's one more group I know of, but the person that I know in it is definitely NOT the brightest shade of black in the box. If I were going to leave these guys it would be for better, not the same.

I don't think the "let them die over and over" will work. Because the point of enforcing some rules and battling metagaming was to create an atmosphere of everyone developing minds and strategy. Thinking for themselves and what not. Instead of there being 5-6 people and 2 people actually playing, the others just moving mini's around. If I want to play mono y mono I'll look in a mirror. At least then I can't be caught in a surprise round. :p

Unfortunately they aren't developing as fast.. or at all... as I thought.

Anyway, I'm still trying to find this feat. I found the spell Grave Strike, to allow SA vs undead. But I've heard on this thread and another talk about a feat, but no one seems to know where I can find it, or the stats/prereq for it or anything. If someone can help me out plz let me know
 

PrinceZane said:
I don't think the "let them die over and over" will work.

If they keep doing stupid stuff, but the DM just handwaves them back to life or the consequenses of their actions gone, then they won't learn not to do the dumb stuff. The guy charging the dragon, for example, probably should have been dead fairly quickly.

Of course, in many cases, this leaves you dead along with them... but sometimes you gotta take one for the team. ;)
 

Nod. Thats exactly what I mean. "Oh.. darn... I died... mmk, I'm going to make a new char, with the exact same ideas and strategy I just had so I can continue to be a...well... as smart as a gellatinous cube".

But yeah, if we, er... the DM allows them to die, worst case scenario is they come back to life at a level loss. Well, that's only hurting the party. Eventually there will be like 1 lvl 10, 1 lvl 9, 1 lvl 8, and 3 lvl 1.... which would obviously screw up the ECLs and CRs of what we "theoretically" can take, blah blah blah, and basically result in everyone making new chars. It always seems to end that way. *sighs*

(Uses the temp signature: I hate stupid people)
 

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