Advice on running high level adventures

Great advice all.

One bit I can think of is trust the rules. Don't start flanging around trying to change rules just because they seem overpowering. Make sure you and your players know the rules you are using (That's a big one) and go from there. IME, most of the issues stemming from high level play comes from a lack of rules-fu.
 

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Two things that are important in my group:

1) Have everyone reference their abilities. There are so many choices of what to do, and so many combinations of effects, that having every single one of them referenced is critical for our group. It seems like a hassle at first, but if you start with it, it doesn't take long to update. The last few sessions have been much smoother since I enforced this rule on myself, and began to enforce it on PCs.

2) When the PCs make a plan that an NPC hasn't thought of yet, let them trounce on people for a while. They have fun, and as long as it isn't campaign-spoiling (i.e., it isn't something an NPC would obviously have seen coming, but you didn't), it is a change of pace from a nail-biter at every battle. Plus, it's a chance for the world at large to learn of the PC tactics, and begin to counter them. The players have to evolve their tactics, and the game becomes more interesting.
 

shilsen said:
Your PCs have (especially by the standards of you and your group, it seems) a lot of power and special abilities. Embrace that. Don't look for ways to negate their power/abilities but rather find ways for the PCs to utilize them. In fact, make it essential that the PCs use them if they are to succeed in achieving their goals. Make it so that they need access to a 5th lvl clerical spell, to someone able to take 70 pts of damage in order to reach a magical door, and so on.

I really like this idea. I hadn't thought of it from that perspective. Thanks!

Great advice so far in this thread. I'm feeling better about it already. I was particularly apprehensive about making the NPCs items commensurate with the level, so IanB's advice is welcome. I tend to create high level PCs using PCGen, but that's not much help with magic items. I suspect my favorite Magic Item Compendium will come in handy for equipping them.

Any other words of wisdom?
 

shilsen said:
In fact, make it essential that the PCs use them if they are to succeed in achieving their goals. Make it so that they need access to a 5th lvl clerical spell, to someone able to take 70 pts of damage in order to reach a magical door, and so on.

At higher levels I create obstacles for the PCs to overcome without even thinking beforehand how they might possibly overcome them. They usually come up with a way that I woudn't have thought about anyway :\
 

if your playing rules as written, then use the CR guidelines to the max - don't be afraid when your random encounter occasionally knocks PC's negative. i've had a number of times when i was worrying about TPK, only for a PC to bring out a spell or magic item and take out the monster with one hit!

(there's some optional rules for increased negatives before PC's die that IMHO are useful while you're trying out new monsters and magic types and don't really want to go through lots of PC deaths)

Preperation - don't be afraid of sending someone to make a coffee while you double check monsters abilities - there's more and more of them and the details can mess up an encounter. Personally I use SRD and cut and paste to create my own encounter references otherwise I end up with 4 books open in front of me as i check magic items vs spell vs monsters....

Players prepare too - nothing stops your players from helping out - get the magic users to print out / prepare their spell lists so you can have instant check of effects - ditto for magic items. PC's can also start using special moves with reasonable chances of success but if they want to trip / disarm get them to look it up first

Don't forget that a roleplaying encounter could / should be just as difficult no matter what your level, (but PC's will be using divinations, enchantment and charisma buffs to help so they will be able to bypass more than before) - another poster has already pointed out the PC's will be more recognisable / famous which has both advantages and disadvantages.

Politics / bureacracy start being a fun option here - it doesn't matter how much damage the fighter can dish out in a round when faced with a spelling error on form 3c of his application for a knighthood.
 

Lots of low EL encounters en route to the BBEG can seriously damage a mid-level party's stock of spells, materials, etc. So, with a party of 9th-level characters tracking through the local warlord's fortress, don't be afraid to throw plenty of EL6-7 encounters against them to whittle them down on the way.

Also, even though they are getting powerful, don't be afraid to shove an unwinnable fight at them from time to time to prove to them that they aren't invincible (a CR20 dragon against an EL9 party, for example, should have them soiling their trousers). Then, they'll treat more balanced encounters a little more wisely :p
 

Merciful weapons are your friend - particularly when paired with dual-wielding, flanking rogues, with rapiers. Cheesy? Maybe, but they put down a frenzied berserker in two rounds... (although, he didn't get a chance to frenzy...)
 

Rafael Ceurdepyr said:
I really like this idea. I hadn't thought of it from that perspective. Thanks!

Happy to help.

Any other words of wisdom?

One thing that comes to mind is to do with the issue of equipment/treasure for NPCs. If you have the PCs fighting lots of classed NPCs, you may have issues with the amoutn of low-level permanent magic items the PCs are collecting and disposing of. One way to work around this, though not strictly by the RAW, is to give enemies the benefits of magical equipment without actually giving them the equipment. So, for example, you can have a bunch of people getting a +1 resistance bonus to all saves without actually possessing a Cloak of Resistance +1. Of course, if you're using the DMG guidelines for NPC wealth, make sure to take off the appropriate amount from their wealth for the 'virtual' magic items.

Another thing to do, which is fairly minor but can both increase player enjoyment and create a sense of greater verisimilitude, is to have encounters once in a while which would have challenged the PCs a few levels ago but which they can roll over very easily now. It gives the players a sense of how far their characters have come and lets them blow off some steam and enjoy themselves in a way that is drastically different to the enjoyment that comes from a battle to the death that they barely survive. From the POV of the campaign world, it makes it seem like more of a real place rather than one where everyone levels up along with the PCs to be just powerful enough to challenge them. Of course, after the PCs kick some poor 2nd lvl muggers all over the landscape, other low-level enemies should be less willing to engage them intentionally, but that also provides a certain degree of entertainment, as the PCs hear their prowess being fearfully extolled by those they once feared. It'll make them feel special until you unleash the high level enemies on them :]

Something else that you should make sure to be absolutely clear on is the role of death in the game. As is being discussed in the Should D&D Have an Alternate Death Mechanic? thread, DMs and players will each have a whole lot of expectations on the subject, many of which may not match up. And at these levels, death happens very easily and, if you run a game which isa t all on the tough side, quite often. Making sure that your players and you are on the same page is a very desirable thing.

Of course, clear communication between DM and players is always a good thing. Considering that this level of play is new for them too, I suggest getting regular feedback on what things are working for them and what is not, and why. Whiel you'll get a lot of good advice on ENWorld, most of it will be fairly general, and may be tangential to the specific issues of your game.

Numion said:
At higher levels I create obstacles for the PCs to overcome without even thinking beforehand how they might possibly overcome them. They usually come up with a way that I woudn't have thought about anyway :\

Actually, that's my approach too. To repeat what I just posted in the "Factors Affecting CR and EL" thread:

... it's also impossible, I think, for a DM to "calculate" for the ingenuity of the players and all the things they might pull off. As the good general Moltke would have said if he was a DM, no plan survives contact with the PCs. That's why I much prefer to focus on the situation and leave how they'll deal with it to my players/PCs. While I may have a couple of broad ideas for things they might do based on my knowledge of the PCs and the players' usual approach, I try never to have any expectations that they'll do something specific. So far, over the last 5+ years of non-stop DMing, it's worked out very well.
 

The higher level the game gets, the more the dm is reacting to the pcs rather than the other way around. They really start to dictate what happens in the campaign once they can pretty much go anywhere via teleport. Keep in mind that they can abandon an adventure that they don't like, usually with ease, once they have this kind of ability.
 

shilsen said:
One thing that comes to mind is to do with the issue of equipment/treasure for NPCs. If you have the PCs fighting lots of classed NPCs, you may have issues with the amoutn of low-level permanent magic items the PCs are collecting and disposing of. .........QUOTE]

This can be an issue for the players as well. If they've been used to squirreling away their magic items and only using them for 'final' encounters they might struggle adapting to where they're expected to get through scroll, potions and item charges on a regular basis...

(based on a PC death to poison con lost where another player 'forgot' he had two restoration potions because he was saving them for 'the final encounter'....D'oh)
 

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