[After FAR] Growing an Underground Civilization

[electric-ant]

I just spent about an hour going through RangerWickett’s Fantasy Arms Race (http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=40003), which, in my opinion, is an awesome idea. However, it has derailed itself into the creation of a world rather than the evolution of one, which is also good, but a different idea than the one the thread started with. So, anyway, as I missed out on the first few stages of evolution, I’m going to selfishly try and do the same thing.

Of course, we’ll want to give a completely different starting point than RangerWickett’s original, lest it be too similar. By the title of this thread, I’m sure you’ve already guessed that-yes!-I’m thinking of chronicling an Underdark civilization. Basically, if you don’t want to read RangerWickett’s thread (and I suggest you do), I give a starting point and we all brainstorm how the civilization evolves. For example, I might describe in a post how one culture has suddenly been struck by famine, and someone might suggest a method this could be gotten around, or even just some of the effects it will have. From there, I could pick a few of the ideas proposed and describe the changes that happen to our culture, and we move on. Should my interest ever flag, go ahead and continue without me, assuming anyone else is interested to begin with.

Repeating to ourselves the mantra of “options, not restrictions,” here are some guidelines for the first positions.

• The ‘story’ as it were, will be set underground – something similar to the Forgotten Realm’s Underdark, but lacking any intelligent races whatsoever (except barely intelligent creatures like goblins, who will never advance technologically or magically unless influenced by our primary cultures)
  
• Three is a nice number, so let’s start off with three separate nations. Humans are a benchmark, and elves are pretty standard– a human, elven, and drow culture seems like a good start. However, they will all have a neutral alignment, as cultures, at the beginning. This will, of course, change, depending on their relations with other cultures and deities, but for now, none are ‘evil’ or ‘good,’ or even possess a slightly more aggressive bent than their counterparts for now. Let them wander where they will, but try to avoid ‘railroading’ them into accepted fantasy positions – our drow may just turn out to be a culture of militantly ordered tree-huggers, or what have you.
  
• Deities? Did I mention deities? At the start of the story, there are none. However, we’ll use the Planescape idea that belief = power on the Outer Planes (which have yet to be created), and any strongly-held belief in a certain deity by a culture (or at least a very large group of people) will manifest in the form of the actual deity. This may be a result of a single leader claiming his powers come from Og the Overgod, in order to increase his influence, or magic-users of the campaign attributing their powers to Mondo-Man the Magic-Giver, or however it turns out.
  
• Magic will be a minor influence at start. Let’s pretend, for no reason at all, that three separate tribes (numbering about 100-200 each), one of each race, have suddenly appeared underground. They are intelligent and quick to learn, but have knowledge of practically nothing beyond a simple tool-making ability and the workings of fire. Some have the ability to do strange things that defy natural laws – magic. Out of the hundred or so, maybe a half-dozen in each tribe have the ability to do magic of some sort, split into sorcerers and shamans (druids or adepts, or actual shamans from OA). Magic has yet to be codified, so wizards do not exist yet, nor do clerics in service to a specific god, as there are no specific gods yet.

In addition, they know nothing of the surface, and have discovered no passages leading very far upward, nor do they seek them, as they expect nothing but further tunnels and passages. For simplicity’s sake, there are no above-ground civilizations that interfere with them yet, and I suggest we not worry about the surface until we've done significant things underground. It may be that there simply is no surface to go to, and it just turns out to be something like the Elemental Plane of Earth, with just endless caves to explore, inhabited by an endless variety of creatures.

Have at it!

 

[Tuerny]

Considering the fact that neither the elves or humans will be able to see underground you might want to change the default underground races (maybe dwarves, dark elves, and gnomes), make changes to the elves and humans so they can see underground, or change the underground so they have the capability to see.

Also underground areas can be as varied as surface ones. What sort of underground areas will the races be starting in. Living in an area with lots of thermal vents is a lot different from living at the edge of a large, underground sea.

 

[Tonguez]

IIRC Drows are Elf so starting with Neutral Drow and Elf populations pobably gives them an unfair advantage

I'd go for Dwarf, Dark Elf and Gnome. Although having a human population who are blind in the dark could set up some interesting dynamics...

 

[electric-ant]

All right, then we'll cut the elves, replace them with gnomes, and give the humans low-light vision - they do have fire, after all. This can end up being a very heavy influence on their culture - since they're practically helpless without a source of light, I bet some of them will start worshipping a fire-deity of some sort.

Let's place the humans by an underground river, since they won't otherwise be able to go very far from their home cavern (until they learn good control of fire, at least) in order to scavenge for food, so the fish there will do nicely.

The gnomes can be in an area near (~3/4-1 mile) a passing lava tube. They're able to get their food because of the abundant plant life that can flourish with the provided heat. (Note: I don't actually know anything about caves, so if anyone does, please correct me.)

Dark elves...hmm, let's put them in an area with several huge caverns strung together. They get their food by hunting small creatures (i.e. bats, rats) that wander through, though this won't last for long, as well as whatever vegetation they can find.

 

[dglass]

Perhaps humans and gnomes learn to cultivate bio-luminecent plants or animals? Unless the gnomes are Svirfneblin in which case they can see in the dark.

 

[Aloïsius]

(except barely intelligent creatures like goblins, who will never advance technologically or magically unless influenced by our primary cultures)

Goblin: average Intelligence score: 10, racial Intelligence modifier: +0.

Human: average Intelligence score: 10, racial Intelligence modifier: +0.

Elf: average Intelligence score: 10, racial Intelligence modifier: +0.

Dwarf: average Intelligence score: 10, racial Intelligence modifier: +0.

Halfling: average Intelligence score: 10, racial Intelligence modifier: +0.

Half-elf: average Intelligence score: 10, racial Intelligence modifier: +0.

Gnome: average Intelligence score: 10, racial Intelligence modifier: +0.

 

[electric-ant]

What's with all the nitpicking?

Anyway, yes, you are correct. Goblins are technically as intelligent as humans, but they have pretty much zero ability to be organized and build a true civilization, as far as D&D canon is concerned.

 

[dglass]

I am just trying to give a different point of view. For example, in GURPS Fantasy the stereotypical Goblin is a pillar of the community. He is a shrewd businessman and a devout christian. Almost none of the old Goblin culture remains from before they were assimilated by the human empire save the old goblin tounge they use when they want to communicate in secret.

If they Goblins must be primative I would personally have them kept that way by other races instead of being genetically inferior. It is implied that the Hobgoblins and Bugbears are related to the goblins but the relationship is not defined. Are the goblins treated as lesser cousins or maby even as slaves by their bigger brothers?

Anyway, I don't want to hijack this thread for something I'm sure other ENworlders have beaten to death already.

So? Which races make first contact? Probably the Drow. They have a limited food supply. Hunters would have to go further and further away to find game.