Again with the Undead? OY!

[glass]

If it walks like an undead duck, and quacks like an undead duck, its an undead duck.

This I agree with, by and large, although I don't have a problem with deathless in Eberron or

Spoiler

Outsider-type ghosts

in Ghostwalk as campaign specific features.

FWIW I don't necesarily have a problem with good liches per se. What I do have a problem with is the notion that 'undead are always evil, but these are special undead'. It's just like the ravages and afflictions in BoED. 'Poison and disease attacks are evil, but here's some poisons and disease attacks which are evil. Why not? Because they are printed in the BoED!'

IMC mindless undead are neutral. Animate Dead is still an [evil] spell, because it disturbs the soul of the person being animated, but the creatures it creates are not evil. Intelligent undead can be of any alignment, although the majority are evil (eventually, if not right away).


glass.

 

[Li Shenron]

IMC mindless undead are neutral. Animate Dead is still an [evil] spell, because it disturbs the soul of the person being animated, but the creatures it creates are not evil. Intelligent undead can be of any alignment, although the majority are evil (eventually, if not right away).

Well, maybe we shouldn't worry too much about mindless undead after all. They are mindless, so it's not that the DM has to think "mmm... would the zombie do this in the situation, or is this a good act?". We can still keep the EVIL label on them for the practical purpose of spells, and say that the label is because of the evil magic that keeps the zombie on his feet.

For instance, I don't think it would be unreasonable to have an evil golem (for purists, read "a construct with neutral alignment but evil subtype"... ), with the golem itself being neutral since lacking free-will, and the evil be in the magic that animates it.

 

[genshou]

Except in D&D, morality isn't relative, it's absolute. Good and evil are real objective forces in the universe.

glass understands... D&D is not a morally subjective universe. It is morally objective, otherwise known as Absolute. Drow are evil because their actions are evil. Whether or not their culture perceives the actions as such is irrelevant. Was slavery immoral before John Locke's philosophical works began to gain popularity in Europe? Or has it somehow become immoral since then? In the real world, this can be argued many ways, but in D&D, the answer is clear.

 

[Sanackranib]

this is the formulea for becoming a lich:

"Knowlege is Power . . .
Power Corrupts . . .
Study Hard . . . be EVIL"

thus there are "few" NON-EVIL liches