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AI is stealing writers’ words and jobs…
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<blockquote data-quote="Jfdlsjfd" data-source="post: 9294103" data-attributes="member: 42856"><p>No, the point of TDM is that indeed, if you don't respect it, you can't use scraping and you can be sued under regular copyright laws. That's why they called that the TDM <em>exception</em>. It conditions the legality of scraping to respecting opt-out. I don't see how you can say "there is no law..." when we're discussing a specific piece of legislation.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That I can understand. However, the job of lawmakers is to find the best outcome for society, not just artists. It seems that the flow of EU legislation (TDM exception in the DSM directive, last week's AI act...) seems to shaping the path toward more AI, with more controls for regulator (and exceptions to exempt itself from control) rather than the contrary.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Sure. Big companies are regularly fined for not respecting the laws (as recently as yesterday, Google was fined 250 millions USD for failing to respect copyright with regard to use of excerpt of newspapers by the French regulator), and maybe the fines aren't enough to make them comply. But what dissuasive means are necessary to hurt the GAFAM-like companies into complying with the laws seems to be a distinct debate from AI.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Since everyone has his own views on what's ethical or not (do you think Proudhon would approve of intellectual property?), I prefer to look at what's legal or not.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>If they don't tell you, it's probably illegal. If there is, buried in the contractual clauses, a "you agree we can do what we want with the data we gather on the way you use our tools", then indeed, the only way to refuse to contractual agreement is not to enter it and renounce its benefits, like using the tools they made. So basically I agree with you on this. Using other tools that do not collect such information would be the sensible thing to do.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Jfdlsjfd, post: 9294103, member: 42856"] No, the point of TDM is that indeed, if you don't respect it, you can't use scraping and you can be sued under regular copyright laws. That's why they called that the TDM [I]exception[/I]. It conditions the legality of scraping to respecting opt-out. I don't see how you can say "there is no law..." when we're discussing a specific piece of legislation. That I can understand. However, the job of lawmakers is to find the best outcome for society, not just artists. It seems that the flow of EU legislation (TDM exception in the DSM directive, last week's AI act...) seems to shaping the path toward more AI, with more controls for regulator (and exceptions to exempt itself from control) rather than the contrary. Sure. Big companies are regularly fined for not respecting the laws (as recently as yesterday, Google was fined 250 millions USD for failing to respect copyright with regard to use of excerpt of newspapers by the French regulator), and maybe the fines aren't enough to make them comply. But what dissuasive means are necessary to hurt the GAFAM-like companies into complying with the laws seems to be a distinct debate from AI. Since everyone has his own views on what's ethical or not (do you think Proudhon would approve of intellectual property?), I prefer to look at what's legal or not. If they don't tell you, it's probably illegal. If there is, buried in the contractual clauses, a "you agree we can do what we want with the data we gather on the way you use our tools", then indeed, the only way to refuse to contractual agreement is not to enter it and renounce its benefits, like using the tools they made. So basically I agree with you on this. Using other tools that do not collect such information would be the sensible thing to do. [/QUOTE]
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