Aid Another

[doktorstick]

How many people can "aid another"? As many people that threaten the enemy? There doesn't seem to be any limit. And the aid another action just states that you make an attack against AC 10. Can this attack be ranged? Or do you have to be in melee?

A medium-sized creature could be attacked by 20 other medium sized creatures--8 with 5' weapons and 12 with 10' reach weapons (attack through/past their allies). This means, potentially, that the "aid another" could result in 1 person attacking and 19 people aiding for a +38 "to hit'. The mass mob. This opens way up if they don't have to be in melee (reference my first paragraph).

Secondly, can the aid another action be used as a AoO? This can be useful if a creatures draws an AoO from two or more opponents.

/ds

 

[kreynolds]

How many people can "aid another"? As many people that threaten the enemy? There doesn't seem to be any limit.

From the SRD...empahsis mine...

Aid another [Standard][AoO: No]

Description: If a combatant threatens an opponent with which an ally is engaged in melee combat, the combatant can attempt to aid the ally as a standard action. The combatant makes an attack roll against AC 10. If the combatant succeeds, the combatant's ally gains either a +2 circumstance bonus to attack that opponent or a +2 circumstance bonus to AC against that opponent (the combatant's choice).

Technically, there isn't a limit. As long as you threaten the baddie, you can Aid Another.

And the aid another action just states that you make an attack against AC 10. Can this attack be ranged?

No. You don't threaten an area with a ranged weapon, thus you can't use a ranged weapon to aid another.

Secondly, can the aid another action be used as a AoO?

Aid Another is a standard action. An AoO is not an action, therefore no, I don't think you can.

 

[doktorstick]

Re: Re: Aid Another

From the SRD...empahsis mine...

That makes sense, and I agree, but from the PHB pg. 135:

In combat, you can help a friend attack or defend by distracting or interfering with an opponent. If you're in position to attack and opponent with which a friend of yours is engaged in melee combat, you can attempt to aid your friend as a standard action.

It doesn't say anything about being in melee, only if you can attack and someone else is engaged in melee. I don't have the FAQ readily available so maybe it clarifies it in there.

Originally posted by kreynolds
Aid Another is a standard action. An AoO is not an action, therefore no, I don't think you can.

Yes, but attacking normally is a standard action, too. And AoO says you can make a "single melee attack". Aid another (as well attacking objects, bull rushing, and grappling) are all under the "Special Attacks" section, and all are melee attacks in different forms.

This may be important if four guys are surround a fella that is trying to escape and they want to dogpile him while he turns and runs drawing an AoO. It depends on how multiple grapplers work and whether or not the other grapplers aid another in the attempt (see the Grapple (Multiple Grapplers) thread).

/ds

 

[kreynolds]

Re: Re: Re: Aid Another

That makes sense, and I agree, but from the PHB pg. 135:

I know what's in the PHB, but it's terribly ambiguous and total crap, which is why I didn't bother using it.

Yes, but attacking normally is a standard action, too. And AoO says you can make a "single melee attack". Aid another (as well attacking objects, bull rushing, and grappling) are all under the "Special Attacks" section, and all are melee attacks in different forms.

It doesn't matter how you twist it. An AoO is not an action. It takes no time out of your round. The Grapple action isn't an action at all to start it, so you can start a grapple with an AoO. You also can't perform a Bull Rush as an AoO.

 

[Artoomis]

I'd allow "aid another" as part of an AoO - provided both parties were entitled to an AoO at the same moment.

In other words, if two of you seperated by 5-feet and you opponenet moves between you, you'd both be entitled to an AoO at exactly the same time, as he leaves your first threatened square. In that circumstance (pretty limited), I'd allow Aid Another in the place of one person's attack.

This tracks nicely with an AoO providing a melee attack.

 

[doktorstick]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Aid Another

It doesn't matter how you twist it. An AoO is not an action. It takes no time out of your round. The Grapple action isn't an action at all to start it, so you can start a grapple with an AoO. You also can't perform a Bull Rush as an AoO.

I guess we'll have to disagree. If someone starts to run or draw a potion, I definately think I can push his butt off-balance (bull rush) or slam him against a wall. And then I could twist all sorts of things for aid, too. It makes sense and you have not provided any reference that says you can't do it. If it was obvious (or intuitive) that you couldn't aid, then there wouldn't be a discussion. I'm not trying to pervert the rules for my benefit, but trying to understand mob attacks.

/ds

 

[kreynolds]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Aid Another

It makes sense and you have not provided any reference that says you can't do it.

Yes, I most certainly did. You cannot perform a bull-rush as an AoO. Why? Because it's a standard action, that's why. Thus, you can't perform the Aid Another action as an AoO. Why? Because it's a standard action.

When you can convince me that you can perform a Bull-Rush using an AoO, I'll consider it.

 

[kreynolds]

I'd allow "aid another" as part of an AoO - provided both parties were entitled to an AoO at the same moment.

That's just funky. Besides, my next question as a player would be, "What else can I do as an AoO when me and my buddy both get one at the same time?"

 

[Artoomis]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Aid Another

Yes, I most certainly did. You cannot perform a bull-rush as an AoO. Why? Because it's a standard action, that's why. Thus, you can't perform the Aid Another action as an AoO. Why? Because it's a standard action.

When you can convince me that you can perform a Bull-Rush using an AoO, I'll consider it.

Bull Rush includes a movement portion, so would never be allowed as an AoO.

Strictly by the rules, you cannot Aid Another during an AoO. Nonetheless, I think that the intent is followed if you allow it under the circumstances I laid our above - which basically means it would rarely happen.

 

[kreynolds]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Aid Another

which basically means it would rarely happen.

Or it means it shouldn't happen at all?