Aid Other in Combat (with lots of lower level monster fodder)

[Larry Hunsaker]

Suppose as the DM, I choose to build an encounter as 3 normal monsters of the proper level and then in place of the other 2 of that level (assume using 5 monsters of the same level as the PCs) I use a horde of lower level monsters (not minions) low enough in level to say let me have 12 of them (so 6 for each 1 monster I give up). Can these fodder mobs be used to surround a PC with one of the standard mobs, not only giving it flanking but then using their action to Aid Other (my PCs are level 25 so these lower level mobs hit AC 10 on anything but a 1) giving it +2 to hit per mob (I assume a max of +8 so I assign 4 fodder to each of the 3 standard mobs)? This seems like an easy way to inflict some serious hurt on the PCs. Is there anything I am missing here? Is this something WotC expected and so should not be unbalancing? I have not yet tried it, and before I do, since it seems a little nasty for the PCs, I wanted to ask the forum.

 

[KarinsDad]

Yes, you can do that.


And yes, Aid Another has always been broken this way. I was really surprised that they did not fix it for 4E. The DC should be something like 5 less than normal, not 10. In the case of AC, x AC by the main attacker and x-5 AC to get the bonus.

A nearly 100% +2 to hit per ally is a bit ridiculous.

 

[chaotix42]

The low-level monsters won't fall prey to the more nefarious minon-slaying tricks floating around but they will die if the PCs so much as glare at them. You could do the same thing with minions but have better defenses and bonuses to hit, right?

Anyway I'm not seeing the issue. I thnk it's pretty cool actually. Your fodder will be swept away soon enough I assure you.

 

[tgaptte]

better mechanic?`

I think a better mechanic might be:

You must hit AC 10 + 1/2 Average PC level...so in the case of your game, it would be 10+ 25/2 = AC 22.


T

 

[Larry Hunsaker]

Thanks for the response to my question, but I am not so sure that these lower level mobs will die as quickly as you say. They are going to be pretty high level, maybe level 15-20, so have lots of HPs and will take some dedicated effort to wipe out. That will be effort the PCs will not be directing at the level 25 mobs so this is my concern. I do not want to do this and find out half way through I am basically about to TPK my group Bad DM planning on my part if this happens, so I am trying to see if others have dealt with this or know that it is a pitfall to look out for. I may end up trying it with a weak encounter and see if it turns out poorly, so I do not threaten a TPK.

 

[erik_the_guy]

You can do this, it won't make a huge difference. Most groups will kill a large number of under-leveled monsters in a turn or two. Basically the enemies get one or maybe two free hits before all the tinies are dead.

If you ask me this is legitimate. Ever notice how even tough guys get overwhelmed in zombie movies?

This is just another potential strategy that smart monsters will use and high level PCs should be able to adapt to pretty quickly.

Anyways, no change in play mechanics is needed here. I call this strategy, not cheating.

 

[KarinsDad]

Thanks for the response to my question, but I am not so sure that these lower level mobs will die as quickly as you say. They are going to be pretty high level, maybe level 15-20, so have lots of HPs and will take some dedicated effort to wipe out. That will be effort the PCs will not be directing at the level 25 mobs so this is my concern. I do not want to do this and find out half way through I am basically about to TPK my group Bad DM planning on my part if this happens, so I am trying to see if others have dealt with this or know that it is a pitfall to look out for. I may end up trying it with a weak encounter and see if it turns out poorly, so I do not threaten a TPK.

For the first attempt, just make sure that you make it less XP than a normal encounter (maybe 2 levels lower). Even if that is too strong, your players should have enough options and resources at that level to retreat.

As you try this out in more and more encounters in the future, you can up the XP based on earlier observed results.

You should also probably have some of the mooks not be doing Aid Another. It's a bit much if all 12 of them are doing that. Many of them should shift over to Aid Another only if they discover that they cannot hit easily on their own.