Airbender game design needs

[fireinthedust]

I'm re-watching the series Avatar: the last airbender.

Naturally I'm thinking of how to turn this into its own, self-contained game system. Not that I'd sit down and do it, but it's a great exercise. Likely you've done it yourselves, while watching the series.


I'm thinking about:

1) System to use. [sblock=systems]Tri-stat BESM, or BESM d20 (the cheap booklet) could work, though I have never used them. True20 could do, but the adept progression is too slow; and I'm not sure about levels. M&M is great, but I've yet to meet players who didn't rush an array or max out powers, rather than enjoying their low PL; so everyone would be more powerful than the avatar if they had the PP; otherwise, the idea of an array seems good, for individual powers (but no dynamic arrays).

I don't know that a class-and-level system would do for this setting. Yes and no: sure, they get stronger with their powers, and each Bending style has different elements to it (fire does combat better, maybe). Still, it's rather strict, and the characters seem to gain abilities more organically than after XP pools overflow to the next level.
Maybe the math goes up by XP, but the gaining of powers fills the role of finding more treasures: a water bending scroll shows you three more moves, it takes a week to learn each one, etc.


The powers would follow one class, I think, but each type would gain certain benefits perhaps, or other traits; in addition to their powers (read: spells per day, but more like at-will powers)

[/sblock]

2) How to represent kids in-game: they're not strong, per se. Basically, all heroes are young. What would this do to a game?

3) Is balance something to be sought? Why play Sokka (non-bender human) in a game alongside the Avatar, three other powerful benders (read: magic-user monks) and a world of giant monsters? Or, rather, how to play said character true to type *without* giving them piles of magic items and feats, like a human fighter?
Could a Sokka class be built in the same style or form as a Bender?

 

[garrowolf]

If you are interested I've made my Nexus D20 game partially based on Avatar the Last Airbender. It's not exact because I wanted to incorporate some other material as well. It has Storm instead of Air but the elemental powers are based on that show. I also have the Elemental Martial Arts based on it as well.

 

[DogBackward]

3: What the Dresden Files RPG does could work for this. Actually, FATE (which the DFRPG is made with) could make a decent system for the whole thing, to be honest. The skill system works well, and the way it handles magic would work great, I think. It's very easy to use magic to impede or contain, rather than simply damage, and it's a freeform system: you describe what you want your spell to do, within it's basic parameters (i.e.: elements).

But on to the main question: balance between mages and "regulars". In the DFRPG, all characters have a Refresh rate; this is how many Fate points that character gains per session/adventure. Each special power you buy costs a certain number of Refresh: power-heavy characters start with quite a bit less Fate than others. Since Fate allows you to do things like reroll skill checks and activate special uses of your character's Aspects (words or phrases that describe your character), this is a great balancing factor. Bad things happening to you can give you Fate points back.

Essentially, your Benders would have awesome, powerful bending moves, but they'd have to get into some bad scrapes before they gain some Fate points to use, while warriors like Sokka would have a bunch to start each game. And then Sokka'd still get more Fate points when bad stuff happens, just like the others.

 

[fireinthedust]

If you are interested I've made my Nexus D20 game partially based on Avatar the Last Airbender. It's not exact because I wanted to incorporate some other material as well. It has Storm instead of Air but the elemental powers are based on that show. I also have the Elemental Martial Arts based on it as well.

I see where you're going with this, I think. I have some comments on the game (before you read it, note the comment below the Sblock):

[sblock=going over Nexus so far...]
1) Fire Benders use lightning in the show, though it's mostly Uncle who's high level. I personally see lightning as a water thing: created by impact between two cloud masses, and in the show it's established that they know clouds are made of water. Air benders use gusts of wind rather exclusively (though Ang certainly branches out as the show goes on). So I get the idea of Storm, and I don't begrudge stylistic choices, but I'd have separated lightning and rain to other areas.

2) The presentation is hard to understand. I'm saying this as someone who's getting their own RPG work edited by a colleague, who claims he doesn't understand what I'm saying in many instances; so basically, it's on my mind. I get what you're saying (kinda, mostly), but I'm an RPG veteran of many systems. Newbs would be utterly lost. Just going over the character creation page, you mention devices, but don't say whether they cost LA. You also use terms that you don't explain first.

3) So if I'm right: you pick the campaign level, then pick the racial packages, devices, and magical ability of the character; these are LA. Then you subtract the LA from the campaign level, and fill in the remaining class levels remaining.

Next you assign 9 ability score points. There is mention of traits, but the link is to them, not an explanation of what a trait is.

Next you get skills. There isn't an explanation of what skills are, or how many one gets (like ability scores), but there are links. The everyman skills don't make sense (not every medieval peasant knows beast craft; nor princess, nor scribe) and I personally would just give a list of skills to choose from based on roles (like Dragon AGe backgrounds, or DCCrpg professions), for the everyman skills. Not everyone needs a bonus beyond their ability scores, which is what skills (ie: ranks atop ability score checks) do; while things everyone can do could just be untrained skills, or a generic list. Overall I'd recommend starting the Skills section with an explanation of Basic, Trained, Focused, Mastery; then go into the specific areas. General-->specific (general, everyman, trained, primary).

Level up: I'd have the chart be vertical, not doubled up like you have it. Emphasize the 20-level spread.
As well, you don't mention experience or how to go up in level after this (is it GM fiat?)

Feats: again, not straightforward. Could be written more simply: "You get feats for the following things: 1 per Trained Skill; Plus one for that skill with each Skill Upgrade. Plus 5 more chosen from any of your trained skills. Plus 2 feats per level (your choice).

Merits, Hero and Social Points: no explanation on this page, in terms of what they do, and why you opted to have them and not just more feats or skills.

Otherwise: I'd like to see example characters. This step-by-step would work really well with a character created at each step of the process. Maybe two characters, one a standard PC type (warrior, wizard, airbender/avatar, etc.), and the other a more unusual creature.[/sblock]

I will say now that I have a lot of respect for Nexus d20. It looks fun, and if you ran a pbp game (where, say, I could play a multi-bender Avatar type, cause that would rock), I would play. Hint, hint.

 

[garrowolf]

I love feedback in how to make the game make more sense to other people. That Is one of the hard things about creating a game is that you are not sure what parts people do and don't understand.

One of the things about Powers is that I am trying to make them as broadly useful as possible. There is electrokinesis which covers "lightning" in a higher tech setting. In a lower tech setting it is considered fire coming from the sky. You could do Rain as a Water effect if you wanted to but I figured that Storm would fill out some of the holes when I was creating the elemental magic. If you want to you can create a more basic Air Power by stripping some of the weather material from it. However it works very well if you have a Weather Witch from a fantasy setting.

Device has been giving me fits. I know what I want it to do but I'm not entirely sure of how is best to do it. It does take up LA if it is a major item or merit points if it is minor or more common. It works fine for Magic Items such as a Magic Sword but I am still trying to figure out the best way to deal with Mechs and Spaceships and such. On one hand the machines make you more powerful when you are in them but you can't stay in them all the time and they are only useful for certain things. If space travel is common at higher tech levels then a spacecraft may not be any more powerful then a minivan in our tech level. However if you have it at a lower tech level it changes things alot. Plus I don't think that a pilot should have to pay for a ship just because he is a pilot. It's confusing.

Yes the campaign level determines the total level of the character. You can take some of those levels as LA in certain things depending on the setting. S if you set the game at level 5 and Dwarf costs 2 then you have 3 class levels left. You create a level 3 character and then add the Dwarf bonuses.

On the everyman skills you can trade them for skills that make more sense or even trade a basic skill for a feat.

One of the things that I am working on is a list of Archetypes for each tech level. It will provide not only example characters but they can be used for quick creation of characters and they can be used as NPCs. I plan on doing a step by step as soon as I finish that.

One of the links is to the traits page. If you have any suggestions on how to make it clearer I would love to hear it. I need the feedback.

There is a Game Concepts page where I give an overview. Some of this is answered in there.

I've never really even seen a pbp game so I don't know much about it. If you want to help me figure it out I'll run a game for you.

 

[fireinthedust]

pbp: check out the forum "talking the talk" and "playing the game" here. Read some IC (in-character) threads, and you'll get the geist of the pbp. It's very slow, so I recommend having a really good group dynamic (to keep people coming back) and cutting to the chase/meaty scenes (ie: the campaign should always be "now" and not "build towards 20th level from 1st level"; you'll never get "there", so focus on the "here").
In short: the GM writes the description, the players respond, the GM responds to them. On a forum we can see all previous posts. Dice rollers help.


Devices (just quickly): up the LA cost of powerful items, and just say low-power items are a Feat or a freebie. Balance is an issue for combat, not ooc stuff. The possiblity of getting caught without access is a problem, so lower the LA cost for certain items. I wouldn't say Ships, they're equipment and plot devices. Power Armor, however, should be treated like cybernetics that are powerful, though removable. Obviously obstacles like too-small rooms for a Mech to enter are situational; but the GM designs every scene, so that would be intentional on the GM's part.

Mechs especially bring the power level up substantively. 3+ LA for a major item that has complex bonuses (everything from a computer library to immunities (space, environment, etc.), to weapons arrays, sensor arrays, etc.), is entirely reasonable. Missiles could be comparable to a Fireball spell, correct? And in a game designed with Mech in mind (likely upper tier characters at that point), they'll be on par with much more powerful characters (archmages, dragons, giant robots, etc.) as it is. Heck, I'd say a low level character that climbs into a mech is automatically a high-power character; if you're keeping to the scale of D&D characters, they're basically an Iron Golem when in the suit.

Same thing with powerful magical items, like Stormbringer or a staff of the magi. The character always has them, so they should just cost LA. They're powers. Spells already have drawbacks (limitations) like "needs water" or "needs books, expensive components, etc." Same thing: needs this item.

Depending on the item; only a few should have LA reduction due to possible loss of access. it will be rare in-game.

 

[fireinthedust]

gave it another look. LA powers should be listed separately from concepts. Like, give a menu of things to add together to make a race (ability bonuses, feats, traits like gills/water breathing/darkvision, and powers). Cybernetics is basically a racial trait, you're right; or just a personal trait that can be taken as part of a "racial" package.

Then example packages, like the "soft shell" anthroforms, will make sense.


You're familiar with M&M, right?

 

[garrowolf]

I like that. I think I will use the idea of breaking device up into more specific sections. That solves some problems.
I now have a Magic Item page and I'm working on an Enhancement called Access to deal with Mechs and such.
I reworked the Character Creation page to make more sense. Tell me if it works better now.
I tried to rework that leveling table the other way but it took up too much space that way.
Any other ideas?

 

[Herobizkit]

2: D&D characters can start as young as 15. Don't sweat the small stuff.

3: There's only one "Avatar". Check out Ars Magica to see how that system handles the glaring disparity between magic-users and meat-shields. That said, non-Benders could be NPC-only, or just make them skill monkeys (rogues) or grunt soldiers (warriors). Monks are monks - they do monk stuff.

 

[garrowolf]

gave it another look. LA powers should be listed separately from concepts. Like, give a menu of things to add together to make a race (ability bonuses, feats, traits like gills/water breathing/darkvision, and powers). Cybernetics is basically a racial trait, you're right; or just a personal trait that can be taken as part of a "racial" package.

If you look under Race and find the Race Creation Rules then you can find all that.

You're familiar with M&M, right?

A fair amount of this system is based on M&M. I think that my system deals with most settings the best of all game systems except for Supers and in a supers game I would use M&M instead.