Alas, another shifter question

[Stalker0]

This one was more of a fun idea. Could a shifter shift into a paladin's mount?

Its a magical beast, so I don't see why not, but it probably wouldn't get most of the special bonuses a mount gets. However, improved evasion is ex, so that's one use.

While I'm add it, can shifters shift into creatures with templates.

 

[Crothian]

I would not allow a shifter to change into a p[aldins mount becasue the mount is coneected and gets his power from the Paladin. Just the same I would not allow a shifter to change into a familiar or an awakened animal.

As for templates, allowing it will really strengthen the power of the Shifter. Personally, I wouldn't allow it because the rules were oviously written without taking this into account.

 

[Mr Fidgit]

As for templates, allowing it will really strengthen the power of the Shifter. Personally, I wouldn't allow it because the rules were oviously written without taking this into account.

but the Greater Wild Shape specifically mentions turning into undead forms (and incorporeality). aren't most undead templates?

(and i do know there are a bunch that aren't, even incorporeal ones like the spectre and banshee -- but you get my point, right?)

 

[Crothian]

but the Greater Wild Shape specifically mentions turning into undead forms (and incorporeality). aren't most undead templates?

(and i do know there are a bunch that aren't, even incorporeal ones like the spectre and banshee -- but you get my point, right?)

Okay, the Shifter (as all prestige classes in the Wizards class books) are created to be used with just the Core Rules in mind. The only two undead templates are Vampire and Lich. There are far more undead monsters in the MM then templates. However, even using other products, I still think the ratio of cretures to templates will at least be 3:1.

 

[Caliber]

That, of course, begs the question. Would you allow a Shifter to use Vampire and Lich form? They are both undead, and they are both in the Core Books.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Lich and Vampire aren't the only templates. There's also Ghost

Technically, any undead is a template. I'd let the shifter (if they can turn into undead) to turn into any simple or "naturally occuring" undead. That totally bans the lich. I'd probably ban the vampire as well, but other people might disagree with me on this.

 

[Crothian]

Technically, any undead is a template.

Ya, forgot the Ghost template. However, I'd have to say technically not all undead are templates. If they were templates they would be, well, templates. Sure skeleton and zombie are presented in different sizes, but other then that the base creature does not matter. That's the key thing with templates. Aside from the 3 templates in the MM, the base creature does not matter in any of the MM undead.

Now, I would have perfered if all Undead would be presented as Templates. It just did not happen that way.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

The zombie and skeleton templates are available at the WotC website.

Monte Cook has an unofficial ghoul template as well. I believe someone (the Sage, while he was still there) said that ghouls should get the physical stat mods of the original race (which would pretty much make them templates).

Think of it this way; undead have to be based on something that was alive, right?

 

[Crothian]

The zombie and skeleton templates are available at the WotC website.

Monte Cook has an unofficial ghoul template as well. I believe someone (the Sage, while he was still there) said that ghouls should get the physical stat mods of the original race (which would pretty much make them templates).

Think of it this way; undead have to be based on something that was alive, right?

But none of that stuff is official. You have to remember the class books are based only on what is in the corebooks. Sure, we can create templates for every kind of Undead, and it would make sense since as you say they have to be based on something that was alive. But that is not the way it was done.

 

[skymage]

by the rules a shifter can't take the form of a template. it's in the revised printing of polymorph self which is what wildshape is based on it also uses simial wording in MotW.

having said that i don't see any reason why a shifter that has seen a half dragon couldn't become one. the catch is that you don't see a half dragon you see a half dragon orc or a half fiend drow. so i wouldn't allow the arbatrary addition of templates to a shapes, but if you've seen the template on someone then you can use it.

as for the mount question he could change into a hourse and disguse himself as the mount but unless the shifter started as the mount he wouldn't gain the abilities.

although the idea of an awakened or otherwise intellegent mount taking levels in druid and the shifter is kind of interesting. imagine the hourse becoming a huge dire hourse or some other huge creature because the paladin is under the effect of a size changeing spell such as polymorph or rightous might.