Alchemist variant-Alchemical Spcialist

Borthos

First Post
The other day I was milling around in my head a Spellless Alchemist. So I made it. I want info: would you play it, why? why not? Any changes, good, bad ugly. Couldn't remember if in PF you still needed to be a caster to make them so I put in an ability that allowed it anyway.

Here it is!

Alchemical Specialist

Spell-less Alchemist Variant

Sometimes, a child takes a liking to alchemy, mixing things, and making things explode better. He has no real magical talent, but he makes up for it with sheer alchemical knowledge and explosives.

You do not gain spells indicated by the Alchemist class table.

Alchemical Knack: You do not gain Brew Potion as a bonus feat at 1st level. Instead, you are treated as a spellcaster only for creating alchemical items.

Alchemical Specialty: You are best known for specific items you create, whether they be tanglefoot bags, Alchemists fire, or even just a simple smokestick. At third level, and every three levels after third, choose one specialty listed below.

Splash weapon Specialist: Choose one alchemical item from the following list: Alchemist's Fire, Liquid Ice, Acid, Fuse Grenade (Adventurers Armory), Alkali Flask. The primary damage for the chosen item increases to 2d6 and any splash damage increases to 1d6. Secondary damage, such as the 2nd round Alchemist Fire damage, stays the same. Any range increment listed for the chosen item doubles. Any saves listed change from their base save to 10+ ½ your Alchemist level + Intelligence modifier.
The Fuse Grenade's primary bludgeoning increases to 3d6 and fire damage increases to 2d6, and the range increment increases by ten feet. You must be 6th level or higher to choose the Fuse Grenade Specialty.

Control Specialist: Choose one alchemical item from the following list: Tanglefoot Bag, Thunderstone, Smokestick, Itching Powder (Adventurers Armory). The saves for these items changes from the base save to 10+ ½ your Alchemist level + Intelligence modifier. Any lasting effects (blindness, deafness, entanglement, etc) effects from the items last 50% longer. Add 5 feet to any range increment listed.

Weapon Coating Specialist: Choose one alchemical item from the following list: Weapon Blanch (any), Bladeguard. The effects of Bladeguard last twice as long. In the case of the Weapon Blanch, the effects last until 2d4 successful hits.
 

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I think that it's an interesting idea, but losing 6th level casting is crippling for the Alchemist. These features, in my opinion, do not compensate for that.

I think a good first step would be to check out the D&D Wiki site and look at the custom base classes. If memory serves, there should be half a dozen alchemist classes there. Pick out the one you like, add the Alchemist's bombs and Discoveries, and presto! Instant Pathfinder Alchemist minus the casting.

If you really do not like any of the classes on that site, well, you've got a long road ahead of you.
 

I think that it's an interesting idea, but losing 6th level casting is crippling for the Alchemist. These features, in my opinion, do not compensate for that.

I think a good first step would be to check out the D&D Wiki site and look at the custom base classes. If memory serves, there should be half a dozen alchemist classes there. Pick out the one you like, add the Alchemist's bombs and Discoveries, and presto! Instant Pathfinder Alchemist minus the casting.

If you really do not like any of the classes on that site, well, you've got a long road ahead of you.

Don't get me wrong, I love the pathfinder Alchemist. I've wanted an alchemist class for a while from D&D and pathfinder gave me an almost perfect one. I'm just milling about ideas for one. Honestly, I don't think losing the casting hurts the class as a whole, it just makes it more a Jekyll & Hyde feel with the mutagen. Jekyll was a brilliant scientist, but Hyde was a lumbering monster. I kinda get that feel.

And D&D wiki is a terrible place to go IMO, almost nothing is balanced or just stupid. that's just my opinion though, ymmv
 

Love the idea of an alchemist who is built off of craft (alchemy) and isn't just a spellcaster with some bombs and mutagens.

The Alchemist (and the Summoner), IMO, suffered from trying to do too many things at once, and ending up doing none of them particularly well.

Some sort of class ability to create 'temporary' alchemical concoctions, at the beginning of the day (or whatever) that only he can use, at no expense to himself, might mitigate the downside of a craft (alchemy) based alchemist essentially 'throwing money at people' every round of combat. That would allow him to throw (improved versions of) alchemists fire and tanglefoot bags at people as a primary attack form, without having to spend 20 to 50 gp on every attack roll.
 

Love the idea of an alchemist who is built off of craft (alchemy) and isn't just a spellcaster with some bombs and mutagens.

The Alchemist (and the Summoner), IMO, suffered from trying to do too many things at once, and ending up doing none of them particularly well.

Some sort of class ability to create 'temporary' alchemical concoctions, at the beginning of the day (or whatever) that only he can use, at no expense to himself, might mitigate the downside of a craft (alchemy) based alchemist essentially 'throwing money at people' every round of combat. That would allow him to throw (improved versions of) alchemists fire and tanglefoot bags at people as a primary attack form, without having to spend 20 to 50 gp on every attack roll.

Well under the craft skill, you only pay 1/3 of the price to make it, which means 7g for alchemist fire to 33 for tanglefoot bags.

EDIT: nvm i got a better idea

Take a previously made Alchemist fire (or any splash weapon), and at the beginning of the day, for a number of vials = [1/2 Alc level + int mod], you can take knowledge learned from crafting it to make them easier and at a lower cost (basically none, just using up the same kinds ingredients it takes to make the extracts), but making them better? Like a scale, if your check exceeds X, damage goes to 2d6; exceeds Y, 3d6?
 
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What about this, Set?

Concoctions:
At 2nd level, an Alchemist learns to use his knowledge of Alchemy to make temporary adjustments to existing items. At the beginning of the day, an Alchemist can improve a number of previously made (not bought) alchemical items equal to ½ his Alchemist level + Intelligence Modifier. The Alchemist rolls a Craft (Alchemy) check and refers to the table to determine how much more potent he can make his creations. This ability replaces Poison Use and Poison resistance +2



Less than 10
Item is destroyed on accident. Alchemist takes damage equal to item.
Between 10 and 15
No change
15 to 20
+1 point of primary and splash damage
20 to 25
+1d6 damage, primary damage only
26 to 30
+2d6 damage, primary damage only
31 to 35
+3d6 damage, Primary damage only
36 to 40
+4d6 damage, primary damage only
Over 41
+5d6 damage, primary damage only
 

I was considering hacking a spell-less Alchemist. To replace spells, you're probably going to need a new ability every other level at least. I was going to group the less magical extracts by theme and treat them as spell-like abilities, maybe silo them like with cavalier orders, and throw in some other abilities. You could put a limit on how many extracts you make a day and/or how many you can have active at once. In some ways it's spell-casting by another name, but it doesn't feel like a spell-caster.
 

Concoctions:

Less than 10
Item is destroyed on accident. Alchemist takes damage equal to item.
Between 10 and 15
No change
15 to 20
+1 point of primary and splash damage
20 to 25
+1d6 damage, primary damage only
26 to 30
+2d6 damage, primary damage only
31 to 35
+3d6 damage, Primary damage only
36 to 40
+4d6 damage, primary damage only
Over 41
+5d6 damage, primary damage only

I like the idea, but the various Diplomancer / Truenaming threads on ther messageboards highlight how easy it is to jack skill rolls to unreasonable levels. It might be better to nip that in the bud and just base the extra dice of effect on ranks of alchemy skill. It removes the chance for an explosive / damaging failure, but that's probably a bonus anyway, since a professional alchemist probably shouldn't have to worry about his version of 'spell preparation' blowing up in his face every day.
 

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