Alignment and Insanity

[moritheil]

Can insane people be lawful? By this, I mean to ask about all manner of insanity, from the "generally erratic schizophrenic" type to the "megalomaniac who thinks he is a deity" insanity.

If you think it varies by the type of insanity, what exact types can and cannot be? What level of detail should DMs and players be prepared to go into to determine the alignment of an insane individual?

 

[Hand of Evil]

Yes, look at Monk as an example.

 

[Hjorimir]

Or Melvin from As Good as it Gets.

 

[Xombie Master]

Or people suffering from severe OCD. There life is so rigid it would make a Paladin shudder.

 

[snarfoogle]

An insane person who has compulsions to do typically insane stuff, such as, say, avoiding all the cracks on a sidewalk is probably lawful-ish.

 

[Ambrus]

I think individuals with obsessive compulsive disorder would be the most likely to be of the lawful alignements. Control freaks would also fall into the lawful camp. On the flip side, those with bi polar and multiple personality disorders and schizophrenics would fall into the chaotic camp. Other derangements could fit anywhere but are probably neutral or chaotic.

 

[moritheil]

Or people suffering from severe OCD. There life is so rigid it would make a Paladin shudder.

True, although of course, it's arbitrary in nature, and thus neutral rather than LG.

I guess what I'm asking is, is the "lawful" component of an alignment strictly adherence to laws, or is it the desire to adhere to laws and an appreciation for the ethos of law as well as the actual adherence? I mean, you can have an OCD person who doesn't like the fact that he or she is OCD, but adheres to these arbitrary laws nonetheless. Are they lawful in the same way that a LN cleric of Helm is lawful?

 

[Kahuna Burger]

on the flip side, a person with a "chaotic" disorder might take on a very lawful mental life in order to manage it. Then theres the question of in a system with a mind/body dicotomy, is your allignment how your defective brain chemistry makes you act or your "true" personality when freed of that chemistry? (what happens when a sane person Magic Jars a schitzophrenic or vise versa?)

 

[WayneLigon]

True, although of course, it's arbitrary in nature, and thus neutral rather than LG.

I guess what I'm asking is, is the "lawful" component of an alignment strictly adherence to laws, or is it the desire to adhere to laws and an appreciation for the ethos of law as well as the actual adherence? I mean, you can have an OCD person who doesn't like the fact that he or she is OCD, but adheres to these arbitrary laws nonetheless. Are they lawful in the same way that a LN cleric of Helm is lawful?

Sometimes I think that if I had to choose just one thing to change about alignment, I'd change the word 'Lawful' to 'Orderly' so people wouldn't tie it so closely with obeying the laws of the land.

Lawful really has nothing at all to do with 'laws' as we usually think of them; it's an ethos that appreciates order, rationality, adherance to codes and strictures that promote organization and - usually - a heirarchical authority. Now, these usually cleave very close to what we in the modern world think of as 'laws of the land' since so many of ours try to promote the same thing.

It certainly goes far beyond mere adherance to the law. I can merely adhere to some laws and still be very chaotic. I can have the utmost contempt for the laws of the land but still not steal because I am Good. I can refrain from murder because I fear being caught. A person who is lawful will refrain from disorder whether or not a 'law' is involved in it. A Lawful person (note the capital) will be lawful whether or not there are any laws; they will always be orderly, organized, prefer things in their place rather than in disarray, and generally manifest an entire host of traits simply because they are lawful. A lawful evil person certainly breaks more laws of the land than he upholds, but he still is methodical, orderly, analytical and prefers belonging to an association than going it alone.

SPeaking of the insanity, I can't right now think of any OCD person who likes being OCD. Being a mild form of insanity, they have no say in the matter; this mental kink compells them to do these things whether they want to or not. I'm assuming here that you're not assuming that any truly insane person actually has any form of say-so or responsibility for the actions that their insanity makes them perform - that's why we have codes in our own laws for lessened competency or even 'not guilty by reason of insanity'.

 

[WayneLigon]

on the flip side, a person with a "chaotic" disorder might take on a very lawful mental life in order to manage it. Then theres the question of in a system with a mind/body dicotomy, is your allignment how your defective brain chemistry makes you act or your "true" personality when freed of that chemistry? (what happens when a sane person Magic Jars a schitzophrenic or vise versa?)

I guess it depends on what type of insanity they have. Some types appear to be totally mental, while others have a significant physical component. I'd say that a sane person transferring into the body of a person with a physical-based insanity will gradually find himself going mad.

Larry Niven also did a cool story about this from the opposite side; people cured of the physical basis for their insanity also had to unlearn the ingrained habits and thought patterns of an insane person, so they still had a long way to go.