Alignment Situations I

[Sarcoth]

My group is having a few discussions on alignment issues right now and I felt the urge to get more views from this board. My group has an average party level of about 7. Our ideal's vary widely on how players LG, NG, and CG should act. How do you think each of those alignments would react in the following situations?

Situation A: The group is attacked by a group of thieves right outside a city. The thieves are easily subdued. Some are unconscious and bleeding to death.

Question 1: What should the healers do?
LG =
NG =
CG =

Question 2: Should the group take prisoners and turn them in at the local guard?
LG =
NG =
CG =

Situation B: The group is attacked by 2 Fire Giants. One is taken down and then the other cries surrender.

Question 1: How should they react?
LG =
NG =
CG =

Question 2: The group paladin already determined they were evil. Would this change how the group should react?
LG =
NG =
CG =


I'm sure I'll come up with a few more situations, but I'll post these to get it started.

Thanks!

 

[Keith]

I know this will not be helpful in the sense you are looking for, but I will throw it in to maybe influence a different approach to these issues. Players should have their characters behave the way the characters’ personality and ethics as they have defined them would lead them to behave. The player is the judge of this; it is their character. The DM maybe then decide that there is a problem with the alignment of the character, and may even change it. The player should continue to play the character the same way. Let alignment adjust to better describe the character; don’t destroy the fun of role-playing your character like a real person by agonizing over alignment. That is my take on it. Obviously, other people consider alignment to be much more of a controlling factor in D&D worlds. I don’t see why, exactly; you can describe and play your character’s ethics much more clearly without reference to the system. Let the alignment chips fall where they may; they are the DM’s problem, in my view!

 

[JacktheRabbit]

Need more information.

1. Are the thieves in the area known for killing their victims or robbing them and leaving them alive?

2. Are the Fire Giants known to be rampaging monsters that kill anyone they can?

One other thought, unlike the thieves the Fire Giant cannot be effectively disarmed. Even if you take his weapons the average party cannot bind him and one good barehanded swing from the FG will probably kill if not cripple a party spellcaster. So taking the Fire Giant prisoner is less an alignment issue and more of a "can we effectively take him prisoner" question.

 

[Sarcoth]

Keith: The DM is rather gungho on us playing our alignments. Plus, I think it would make things difficult when trying to detect evil and cast spells that hurt evil if we did it that way. Thank you for your advice though.

Doc:
1) The group is new to the town and just arriving. Nothing much else is known about the thieves. They didn't ask the group to surrender, they just attacked. The group isn't sure they were thieves, sorry that was more of a DM point. I should have said they were attacked by a group of thugs or something. The intent was to kill and rob them, but the group would not really have known that unless they lost.

2) There is actually a horde of fire giants in the town and they are destroying the whole town. Killing people or taking them as slaves. The party does know this.

In regards to the fire giants, that was one of the problems I had too. I couldn't see the group effectively taking them prisoner or accepting their surrender because we could easily be slain if it changed it's mind.

 

[Sixchan]

IMO, all three would heal the thugs and turn them in, unless they were likely to get off on no charge, in which case the CG character should kill them or punish them in some other way. The NG characer can act in either way.

And I think all three alignments would still be correct if they killed the fire giants. All Good characters would be compelled to kill them because of the innocents they have hurt.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Sarcoth: I play it the same way as Keith. This doesn't mean disregarding alignment. All the PCs still have them, so all spells work normally. The difference is that the actions of the PC should determine the alignment, rather than the alignment determining the actions of the PC. This does mean that a PC that began as LG might shift to NG or CG or LN over the course of a campaign if his actions are more in tune with a different alignment. But this isn't really a bad thing.

Still, your game is your game, so let me address your initial post:

Question 1: What should the healers do?
LG = Heal the dying, but make sure they are securely bound.
NG = Heal the dying, but make sure they are securely bound.
CG = Heal the dying, but make sure they are securely bound.

Rationale: Once defeated the thieves are no longer a threat, so there's no Good (capital G) reason to let them die. I'd say allowing them to die is a Neutral act, while saving their lives is Good.

Question 2: Should the group take prisoners and turn them in at the local guard?
LG = Yes.
NG = Yes.
CG = Yes.

Rationale: In this scenario, there's really no reason not to turn them in to the guard. And even a neutral- or chaotic-good character is going to want them out of the way (read: imprisoned).

Situation B: The group is attacked by 2 Fire Giants. One is taken down and then the other cries surrender.

This one requires more background, because as DocMoriartty points out, Fire Giants cannot be effectively bound and made harmless. If this were a random encounter with random Fire Giants, I'd say let the other FG go. He's hurt, so he'll probably leave to heal himself, and won't bother tracking the PCs after they've parted ways. If this were an encounter with, say, a couple Fire Giants from the nearby Evil Fire Giant City, I'd say kill the Giant. Allowing it to leave (and hence return to said nearby City) would represent a huge risk to the lives of the PCs. Mercy is Good, but the Fire Giant forwent any right to mercy by attacking the party. In that case, Mercy would be too risky, and smart Good PCs will know that.

Question 2: The group paladin already determined they were evil. Would this change how the group should react?

No, because Fire Giants are humanoid (yes, I know they're techically [Giant]s, but you know what I mean!), and thus in my games capable of change (as PC races are). So the fact that the giant is evil now is irrelevant. Be merciful if you can. Be swift if you cannot.

 

[apsuman]

I hate defining Neutral as somewhere between this (law answer) and this (chaos answer), but sometimes you have to.

So here goes.


Situation A: The group is attacked by a group of thieves right outside a city. The thieves are easily subdued. Some are unconscious and bleeding to death.

A good person would, if they deem themselves safe from immediate threat of loss of life, try to prevent deaths. This would happen primarily through the use of the healing skill, and only use spells if necessary. Furthermore, the good but not stupid would disarm those still able to fight to keep themselves safe. Finally, the good would demand the return of all items stolen from the party. Beyond this there are no requirements based upon a good alignment. However, there are some optional actions based upon other alignment considerations.

Question 1: What should the healers do?

LG = Demand payment (at the appropriate costs) for all healing spells cast. Demand a loyalty oath from all the theives to stop their ways. Force the thieves to atone. Turn in the ruffians into the local authorities.

NG = Remove any dangerous items from the thieves, and all known thieves' tools and send them on their way. Paint and/or brand a T (or similar symbol) onto the cheek or forehead of the thieves. Take the leader to the local athorities.

CG = Strip all the thieves and run thim into town naked for public display. Dye all thier clothes yellow (or some similar color). Take all posessions from the theives and give it to the townspeople or if time will not allow to the first offended local you can find. Slice off the right ear of the leader and put it on your belt of ears -- explain that you really are going to make a purse.

Question 2: Should the group take prisoners and turn them in at the local guard?
See above.


Situation B: The group is attacked by 2 Fire Giants. One is taken down and then the other cries surrender.

The good person would, if possible, banish the fire elemental back to the elemental plane of fire to never return. If not, kill the elemental, sparing life only if they provide information about the other fire elementals.



g!

 

[RigaMortus]

Re: Re: Alignment Situations I

Question 1: What should the healers do?

LG = Demand payment (at the appropriate costs) for all healing spells cast. Demand a loyalty oath from all the theives to stop their ways. Force the thieves to atone. Turn in the ruffians into the local authorities.

I agree with everything here...

NG = Remove any dangerous items from the thieves, and all known thieves' tools and send them on their way. Paint and/or brand a T (or similar symbol) onto the cheek or forehead of the thieves. Take the leader to the local athorities.

I sort of agree, except for the branding thing (paint, sure, why not? Brand as in scar them... ahhh, no).

CG = Strip all the thieves and run thim into town naked for public display. Dye all thier clothes yellow (or some similar color). Take all posessions from the theives and give it to the townspeople or if time will not allow to the first offended local you can find. Slice off the right ear of the leader and put it on your belt of ears -- explain that you really are going to make a purse.

I agree with all except the slicing off of the ear. I'll assume you were just joking, but incase you weren't. I do not think a Good person would torture someone like that. Evil tortures, Good does not.

Situation B: The group is attacked by 2 Fire Giants. One is taken down and then the other cries surrender.

The good person would, if possible, banish the fire elemental back to the elemental plane of fire to never return. If not, kill the elemental, sparing life only if they provide information about the other fire elementals.

g!

They were fire giants, not elementals. Elemental's can't really be "reformed" into good citizens as I see it.

Others brought up a good point about "what do you do with a captured fire giant"? You can't effectively bind him or cage him with mundane items. To this I say, this is where magic comes in. Maybe subdue him into unconciousness and then let the guards do their job. If they try to imprision him, then they will have to worry about how to do so. If they outright kill him, then that is their choice and you won't have to worry about it.

 

[WayneLigon]

Situation A: The group is attacked by a group of thieves right outside a city. The thieves are easily subdued. Some are unconscious and bleeding to death.

Question 1: What should the healers do?
LG = Heal them, turn them over to the Guard.
NG = Heal them, find out why we were attacked.
CG = Did they hurt any of my friends? Or me? If not, heal them. If so, heal them just enough that they'll live. They'll know enough not to mess with us again.

Question 2: Should the group take prisoners and turn them in at the local guard?
LG = Certainly. People like this can't be allowed to roam around.
NG = If the guard won't just string them up summarily, turn them over. Otherwise, no.
CG = Why? They'll either just escape, or the guards will treat them worse than we just did. Maybe they'll think twice about ambushing people.

Situation B: The group is attacked by 2 Fire Giants. One is taken down and then the other cries surrender.

Question 1: How should they react?
LG = Accept his surrender, but watch him closely; giants are not to be trusted, but this one might. If he proves himself trustworthy, all the better. If not, cut him down like a dog.
NG = Possibly accept his surrender. But we know giants are untrustworthy beings. 50/50 go ahead and kill him.
CG = Eh, I'll accept it for now, but I'll watch him. He hurt my buds, so if I can hurt him back, I'll do it.

Question 2: The group paladin already determined they were evil. Would this change how the group should react?
LG = We know he is an untrustworthy dog. If the situation permits, take him prisoner. Otherwise, kill him.
NG = It'll either turn on us, or will simply stay here and kill the next group of travellers that's not strong like we are. Off him.
CG = It'll turn on us as soon as our backs are turned. Twang!

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Re: Re: Re: Alignment Situations I

Maybe subdue him into unconciousness and then let the guards do their job. If they try to imprision him, then they will have to worry about how to do so. If they outright kill him, then that is their choice and you won't have to worry about it.

If I drop a thief into a pool with a crocodile and the crocodile chooses to eat him, it doesn't absolve me of moral responsibility because I didn't kill the thief personally. Similarly, if I give a fire giant to guards who have no way to contain him and will therefore most likely kill him, that does not absolve me of the moral responsibility attached to his death.

[edit to add

He hurt my buds, so if I can hurt him back, I'll do it.

Vengeance may be chaotic, but it certainly isn't Good...!