Alignments... the Ultimate Sacred Cow

[Calico_Jack73]

If you are talking about the DMG prestige class, it is Evil because it is tied to an organization which executes murders for money.

And this is different from the Military how? This isn't a rant against the military, I served for 9 years and enjoyed every minute of it. I never had any illusions though about what the job of the military was, which at it's core is to kill people... pure and simple. Every person who enlists is agreeing to get a paycheck to either directly kill people or to help others kill people. The Dept of Defense gets their funding from the taxpayers and would cease to exist without that money. There is your organization that kills for money.

 

[Calico_Jack73]

Oops, I meant to finish up by saying that killing for money isn't necessarily an evil act.

 

[S'mon]

I think Alignment is one of the quirks that defines D&D. But if it were up to me they'd have stuck with the Basic-OD&D approach of just 3 alignments, Law Neutrality and Chaos. That would avoid a lot of grief.

 

[DragonLancer]

And this is different from the Military how? This isn't a rant against the military, I served for 9 years and enjoyed every minute of it. I never had any illusions though about what the job of the military was, which at it's core is to kill people... pure and simple. Every person who enlists is agreeing to get a paycheck to either directly kill people or to help others kill people. The Dept of Defense gets their funding from the taxpayers and would cease to exist without that money. There is your organization that kills for money.

The Assassin is doing it for money and perhaps the thrill of snuffing someone's life out.

The Marine Sniper is doing his job to protect perhaps his nation, world peace...etc. He's not doing it it for the desire to kill, he is doing it for the perceived greater good.


Personally I think the alignment system works fine, so long as the DM can explain how it will work in his campaign to the players.

 

[loxmyth]

And this is different from the Military how? This isn't a rant against the military, I served for 9 years and enjoyed every minute of it. I never had any illusions though about what the job of the military was, which at it's core is to kill people... pure and simple. Every person who enlists is agreeing to get a paycheck to either directly kill people or to help others kill people. The Dept of Defense gets their funding from the taxpayers and would cease to exist without that money. There is your organization that kills for money.

Except that he didn't say kill for money, he said murder for money. And murder is an evil act. The prerequisite for being an assassin (at least in 3.0) is to just randomly kill somebody on the street, just to prove you can.

 

[S'mon]

For my current campaign I've adopted a subjective approach - you can put whatever you want on your character sheet, you can consider yourself Lawful Good but theoretically can register as Chaotic Evil (or, more likely, Lawful Evil or Chaotic Good) to someone with a different moral code. Paladin & Clerical powers are granted by gods not by abstract Alignment-forces.

 

[Calico_Jack73]

The Assassin is doing it for money and perhaps the thrill of snuffing someone's life out.
The Marine Sniper is doing his job to protect perhaps his nation, world peace...etc. He's not doing it it for the desire to kill, he is doing it for the perceived greater good.

So you'd have to agree that it is possible to be a good Assassin. What if the Assassin's guild in a kingdom was controlled by the king and the Master of Assassins was a loyal subject. If the King sent his Assassins out to kill an opposing kingdom's key generals so as to disrupt plans for invasion wouldn't that be a good act? What about the opposing kingdom, wouldn't they consider that same act evil? Good and Evil (in relation to the PC races) is all based upon point of view. Really the only time Good and Evil is an absolute for alignments is when you are dealing with Celestials and Fiends, creatures whose very essence is made up of Good or Evil.

 

[carpedavid]

The problem I have with alignment is treating it as a force of nature, then trying to shoehorn everything into one of 4 categories: Good, Evil, Law, or Chaos. I like things to be a bit more stratified, so I've replaced alignment with the allegience system from d20 Modern. This allows me to retain most of the magical effects like "Protection from..." or "Magic Circle against..." or "Smite..." by substituting in the appropriate allegience, but gives me the flexibility to describe my world as I see fit.

 

[Calico_Jack73]

Except that he didn't say kill for money, he said murder for money. And murder is an evil act. The prerequisite for being an assassin (at least in 3.0) is to just randomly kill somebody on the street, just to prove you can.

I could really get into this discussion but we are getting away from the primary discussion. Politics, Religion, and Abortion are the three issues that you never discuss because nobody will ever agree and you can't convince anyone of anything. Well, that and the viability of having a Paladin in a D&D party.

 

[Calico_Jack73]

The problem I have with alignment is treating it as a force of nature, then trying to shoehorn everything into one of 4 categories: Good, Evil, Law, or Chaos. I like things to be a bit more stratified, so I've replaced alignment with the allegience system from d20 Modern. This allows me to retain most of the magical effects like "Protection from..." or "Magic Circle against..." or "Smite..." by substituting in the appropriate allegience, but gives me the flexibility to describe my world as I see fit.

I'm going to have to check that out.