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<blockquote data-quote="ECMO3" data-source="post: 9385414" data-attributes="member: 7030563">Grapple and shove already take 1 attack in 5E if you are a PC with Extra attack (for a creature they are an entire action).You can already do that at level 5 and you can do it reliably.&nbsp; Under the new rules you can try it, but the chances of succeeding are very low.Using the example above a 5th level Rune Knight in Giant's Might with an 18 strength (+7 Athletics) who uses action surge has a 87% chance of successfully grappling AND proning an Adult Red Dragon.&nbsp; That is without even optimizing for this at 5th level.&nbsp; If you have skill expert (+10 athletics) this goes up to 96%.In the switch to the saving throw (DC 15) the chance of doing this successfully using actin surge is 35% without considering Legendary Resistance.&nbsp; With Legendary Resistance it is impossible to do in 1 turn.This is the same, but there is a MUCH higher chance of the bad guy succeeding.&nbsp; If you do get lucky and land the shove and the grapple, the chance for the Dragon in this example to escape the grapple in the UA rules for the example above is 70%, so it loses an action but probably have a good result and doesn't have to suffer disadvantage on all its legendary attacks.&nbsp;&nbsp; In 5E against a basic Rune Knight with a +7 Athletics in Giant's Might the chance of a Dragon escaping is 40%.&nbsp; Again this is a Figther who did not even optimize for this.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="ECMO3, post: 9385414, member: 7030563"] Grapple and shove already take 1 attack in 5E if you are a PC with Extra attack (for a creature they are an entire action). You can already do that at level 5 and you can do it reliably. Under the new rules you can try it, but the chances of succeeding are very low. Using the example above a 5th level Rune Knight in Giant's Might with an 18 strength (+7 Athletics) who uses action surge has a [B]87% [/B]chance of successfully grappling [U]AND[/U] proning an Adult Red Dragon. That is without even optimizing for this at 5th level. If you have skill expert (+10 athletics) this goes up to 96%. In the switch to the saving throw (DC 15) the chance of doing this successfully using actin surge is [B]35%[/B] without considering Legendary Resistance. With Legendary Resistance it is impossible to do in 1 turn. This is the same, but there is a MUCH higher chance of the bad guy succeeding. If you do get lucky and land the shove and the grapple, the chance for the Dragon in this example to escape the grapple in the UA rules for the example above is 70%, so it loses an action but probably have a good result and doesn't have to suffer disadvantage on all its legendary attacks. In 5E against a basic Rune Knight with a +7 Athletics in Giant's Might the chance of a Dragon escaping is 40%. Again this is a Figther who did not even optimize for this. [/QUOTE]

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