Alter Self for Darkvision?

[Murrdox]

I don't see any reason why someone couldn't Alter Self to gain a Bat's Blindsight ability. You'd have to transform your face into a giant Bat-face to do it though.

In order for gills to function properly, you 'd need to alter your lungs in ways you might not properly understand. But you're able to do it... so evidently Alter Self understands what you mean when you wish to create gills on someone. Likewise, I believe the spell would do whatever physical changes were necessary to grant someone a bat's blindsight ability. Most likely this would involve growing huge ears and the scrunched-up nose of a bat, since those are the things that make a bat's blindsight work.

As long as Darkvision is a natural ability, and not supernatural or extraordinary, I'd allow Alter Self to grant it. Similarly, you could Alter Self to grant yourself "Eagle Eyes" and gain a racial bonus to spot checks, or something similar.

 

[Mahali]

I don't see any reason why someone couldn't Alter Self to gain a Bat's Blindsight ability. You'd have to transform your face into a giant Bat-face to do it though.

Because Blindsight is way to powerful for a 2nd level spell.

This will give you Blindsight from MotW

Embrace the Wild
Transmutation
Level: Drd 3, Rgr 3
Components: V, F
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 10 minutes/level

 

[Murrdox]

Because Blindsight is way to powerful for a 2nd level spell.

This will give you Blindsight from MotW

So what? Fly is a 3rd level spell too, and Alter-self can almost replicate that effect as well. You hadn't posted the full text of the "Embrace the Wild" spell, but I'm betting you don't have to grow tremendous ears and a scrunchy bat-nose for the effect to work, like you would have to do for Alter Self.

 

[LokiDR]

30' blindsight is a second level spell, according to Savage Species.

I also thing that savage species is full of crap, but that is just me.

 

[Dingleberry]

So what? Fly is a 3rd level spell too, and Alter-self can almost replicate that effect as well.

IMC, we've found the difference between a 30 ft fly speed with poor maneuverability (alter self) and a 90 ft fly speed with good maneuverability that gets you to the ground safely if dispelled (fly) to be extremely significant.

 

[Murrdox]

You got it, Dingleberry. And if you use an actual Blindsight spell to gain Blindsight instead of Alter Self... you don't have to walk around looking like a bad experiment of Mother Nature gone horribly wrong.

 

[LokiDR]

You got it, Dingleberry. And if you use an actual Blindsight spell to gain Blindsight instead of Alter Self... you don't have to walk around looking like a bad experiment of Mother Nature gone horribly wrong.

You think role-playing considerations are the proper thing to balance a powerful ability with? The fly spell has significant rule based value over alter self for flying. Besides not looking like a winged freak.

 

[Mahali]

You're right Embrace the Wild doesn't change your appearance. The spell component is part of the animal your mimicking and you have to collect it from the animal yourself.

Even with making you look like a freak Blindsight for a second level spell IMHO is too powerful.

I don't think the supplemental books are covered by the opening gaming license otherwise I would have copied the whole thing..

 

[Lord Pendragon]

You think role-playing considerations are the proper thing to balance a powerful ability with? The fly spell has significant rule based value over alter self for flying. Besides not looking like a winged freak.

Exactly right.

Also, you can't even get Blindsight (Ex) if you Polymorph into a bat. Why should Alter Self be able to do the job, if even its 4th-level cousin can't?

 

[Murrdox]

Since when do you not get a Bat's Blindsight ability when Polymorphing?

You get all the natural, non-magical abilities of the form you polymorph into. While I'm sure there's lots of monsters out there that have a magical form of Blindsight... a Bat's is completely natural.