Alternate Class Feature from PH II

[Falstaff]

Hello,

As I read the Alternate Class feature for the Druid from Player's Handbook II, the Shape Shift ability, a character DOES NOT retain their Feats when they shift, correct?

Thanks!

 

[Beckett]

I don't have the book with me, but it seems like the character should keep his feats when shifted. Taking away all feats would really hurt the character, and in some cases not make sense ("I shift, so I lose my feats. There goes that 3 HP from toughness...")

Personally, I'm inclined to be much more generous with what I allow a shapeshifter druid to keep when shifted, if only to make it more attractive than that headache that is wildshaping.

 

[Voadam]

I don't have it in front of me but I believe that is a mistake.

Items get absorbed. They keep their stats, hp, skills, and feats. Some can't be used in new forms though (anything that requires hands, for instance).

 

[Falstaff]

Thanks for the replies!

 

[Arknath]

I have a druid in my campaign that is using this alternate class ability and he keeps his feats when he shifts. It seems to work fine so far. He also gains the feats stated in the individual form entry for each form, but only while in that form. So far I haven't had any balance issues with it. I'll see if I can't get him to post to this thread and give his input.

 

[Christian]

That would be me ... I'm curious, what in the description would lead you to think that the druid loses access to his feats? There's a specific list of effects of shapeshifting; it seems to me that the default would be that the character has his same feats unless stated otherwise. Certain forms indicate the the druid gains the use of certain feats while shapeshifted once he gains a high enough level; but nowhere does it state that he loses access to any feats. (There's the obvious things like, not being able to use metamagic feats since he can't cast spells while 'shifted, of course ...)

That said, it hasn't actually come up (yet) in Arknath's game, 'cause my druid's feats are all metamagic and item creation. So our balance experience probably isn't relevant.

 

[Arknath]

Good point... thanks for postin!

 

[Falstaff]

That would be me ... I'm curious, what in the description would lead you to think that the druid loses access to his feats? There's a specific list of effects of shapeshifting; it seems to me that the default would be that the character has his same feats unless stated otherwise. Certain forms indicate the the druid gains the use of certain feats while shapeshifted once he gains a high enough level; but nowhere does it state that he loses access to any feats. (There's the obvious things like, not being able to use metamagic feats since he can't cast spells while 'shifted, of course ...)

That said, it hasn't actually come up (yet) in Arknath's game, 'cause my druid's feats are all metamagic and item creation. So our balance experience probably isn't relevant.

I was lead to think this because the description DOES list what you DO keep, and feats aren't included in the list.

Thanks again!

 

[Shazman]

It think feats aren't listed because it is assumed you'd keep them. Since htere's no reason to think that you would lose them, it's a given that you keep them. What else makes you lose feats besides level loss?

 

[Falstaff]

It think feats aren't listed because it is assumed you'd keep them. Since htere's no reason to think that you would lose them, it's a given that you keep them. What else makes you lose feats besides level loss?

Okay. But, if that's the case, then why does the description list that you keep BAB, Base saves, etc. Why doesn't it assume we already know you keep those elements. Skill ranks are also listed as being kept, but why list those things and NOT list Feats if you keep Feats?

Maybe I'm just not clever enough for this game!